2nd Meeting with Dr. Zigler: Comments on M6, Stenum, Nick Boeree, Ranier Cadisc, and more!

[mike86]

Hello everyone. I'm the Stem Cell Guy looking for an ADR, here, again, just keeping you guys updated on my progress.

So a week ago I meet with Dr. Zigler because I wanted his opinion on what course of action I should take. I ended up getting ESI's in an attempt to delay surgery, which means surgery is pretty much on the books in the near future. More details on this post.

So I met with him today for my follow-up. We talked about a bunch of stuff:

-The prodisc wouldn't be appropriate for me given my age, my goals, and the activity level I want. I need axial compression and the prodisc is last generation.

-He's excited about the new trial they're probably starting at TBI in a few months: The Ranier Cadisc. He actually explained to me how it works, particularly how it sticks to the bone. I didn't understand a word he said but basically there's a glue on it to attach it to the bone and then there's bony in-growth. He said he doesn't want me in the trial given how young the technology is. I should use something that has a little more history. Regardless, he's excited about it because it looks very promising, unlike the 6 other discs (including the freedom) he's used with no success.

-Given this, he said I should probably wait a little more for surgery. See what products prove to be effective in the US.

-And so I asked about Minimally Invasive Surgery (snip out the herniation).. He said this would just weaken my disc and make it worse! It works for certain people with different goals, but wouldn't with me!

-If I can't wait to get my back fixed, then he said he can help me find surgeons in Europe for the M6, but he doesn't know too much on results for that one.

-Removed by Mike86

-AND THEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT DR. NICK BOEREE from Nuffield, UK: He immediately recognized the name Nick and blurted out his last name before I said it. He was happy I mentioned him and said he's one of the best surgeons for ADR's in Europe. Very experienced and very talented. Plus, he works with the M6.

-So I'm going to contact Dr. Nick Boeree and ask him how he's been doing with the M6, AND i'll ask him if he has any experience with the Ranier Cadisc.

-Basically I'm getting surgery any way I look at it. Dr. Zigler said I have to decide how soon I want to take that disc out. He said I could also wait for weird stuff like virus injections, stem cell developments, etc.

-He also mentioned that he's glad Regenexx stem cell treatments were shut down. They were promising way too much and had little to no results. He also doesn't believe too much in the DRX-9000. It could help a few people but a very particular few only.

So yea, that's my appointment with Dr. Zigler today. Great doctor any way you see it!

[Metalneck07]

Wow what an interesting and informative meeting with Dr.Zigler.I'm shocked that he doesn't use the Prodisc for young people.I knew of someone who recieved the Prodisc in their early 20's.You must be Super young for him not to use it.
40's average age did he give you any imformation as to how he picks this age over other ages?
It's phenomial he had experiences with 6 different disk that had no sucess.It's great he was able to share that information with you so you could avoid all of those.
Well all in all sounds like he was very informative and helpful.Even helping you to find the right doctor over seas is very
fortunate.Good luck in your journey.
Caitlin aka Metalneck07

[mike86]

Wow what an interesting and informative meeting with Dr.Zigler.I'm shocked that he doesn't use the Prodisc for young people.I new of someone who recieved the Prodisc in their early 20's.You must be Super young for him not to use it.
40's average age did he give you any imformation as to how he picks this age over other ages?
It's phenomial he had experiences with 6 different disk that had no sucess.It's great he was able to share that information with you so you could avoid all of those.
Well all in all sounds like he was very informative and helpful.Even helping you to find the right doctor over seas is very
fortunate.Good luck in your journey.
Caitlin aka Metalneck07

It's not that he doesn't use the prodisc for young people, it's just that people this young (I'm 24 btw) usually don't develop these types of conditions, and it's people around 40 (average) that start developing these conditions and require surgery. Don't the the causality mixed up. He doesn't really pick his patients.

He said that with my conditions, and with my goals in life, the prodisc would not be appropriate for me given that it's a last-generation device and it doesn't provide protection for adjacent joints.

It was indeed a very productive meeting. Thanks for the comments!

[KBear]

Wow, I wonder what changed in the 2 years since he recommended the ProDisc for me.... I was only 28 years old when he fought my insurance trying to get it, not to mention he is co author of the studies that got it FDA approved. He also knew I wanted to have more children and led an active life. I'm not a pro athlete or anything, but not a couch potato either.

[mike86]

Wow, I wonder what changed in the 2 years since he recommended the ProDisc for me.... I was only 28 years old when he fought my insurance trying to get it, not to mention he is co author of the studies that got it FDA approved. He also knew I wanted to have more children and led an active life. I'm not a pro athlete or anything, but not a couch potato either.

Well he explicitly mentioned the continued success he's had with the prodisc (see the previous post). However, he said I should wait because there's exciting new technologies right around the corner. I was very knowledgeable on the subject so he understood that I wanted something more advanced. He in no way say the prodisc wasn't any good.

I'm just relieved he warned me about stenum.

[helmut]

"...but he could say they were horror stories that he was a part of. 'STAY AWAY'. I asked if it was like a surgery factory, he said 'exactly'."


Could we at least hear a few of the "Horror stories" that he was part of regarding Stenum?

How do you define "Surgery Factory" ?

Helmut

[mike86]

"...but he could say they were horror stories that he was a part of. 'STAY AWAY'. I asked if it was like a surgery factory, he said 'exactly'."


Could we at least hear a few of the "Horror stories" that he was part of regarding Stenum?

How do you define "Surgery Factory" ?

Helmut

Hi Helmut I really hope your surgery went well!

He said he doesn't like bad mouthing anyone and he couldn't tell me the stories due to patient confidentiality anyways. I was the one that said 'Is it like a surgery factory where they bring in patients in numbers' and he nodded.

I'm glad you have described your experience as favorable though!

[helmut]

Hi Helmut I really hope your surgery went well!
He said he doesn't like bad mouthing anyone and he couldn't tell me the stories due to patient confidentiality anyways. I was the one that said 'Is it like a surgery factory where they bring in patients in numbers' and he nodded.

Thanks Mike!

But don't you think that what is going on here now is even worse than bad mouthing somebody? You have placed a white elephant in the room, which is classic slander that we see especially done in politics all the time.

I know that the surgery factory was your interpretation, thats why I asked what your definition of the word is. If a place where patients come in to have surgeries performed is called a "factory" than thats new to me, I thought it was called a hospital. If you are talking about hospitals that kick out their patients immediately after surgery because the insurance company won't cover their stay than thats what I would call the norm in a lot of hospitals in the US, or have you ever heard of a ADR patient in the US that stayed at the hospital for a week or longer, as long as it took to recover all included in the same price with fantastic care?

I am curious therefore how Surgery factory is defined by you?

Helmut

[Mirx]

Excellent info Mike, thanks for sharing. I am pleased to hear Dr. Zigler is speaking highly of Nick Boeree who I am seeing next month.

Please keep us posted. I would in particular be interested to hear Boeree's opinion on Cadisc-L, successes with M6-L, etc.

[mike86]

Thanks Mike!

But don't you think that what is going on here now is even worse than bad mouthing somebody? You have placed a white elephant in the room, which is classic slander that we see especially done in politics all the time.

I know that the surgery factory was your interpretation, thats why I asked what your definition of the word is. If a place where patients come in to have surgeries performed is called a "factory" than thats new to me, I thought it was called a hospital. If you are talking about hospitals that kick out their patients immediately after surgery because the insurance company won't cover their stay than thats what I would call the norm in a lot of hospitals in the US, or have you ever heard of a ADR patient in the US that stayed at the hospital for a week or longer, as long as it took to recover all included in the same price with fantastic care?

I am curious therefore how Surgery factory is defined by you?

Helmut

I wouldn't want to lay all of this on top of you especially that that you're just out of surgery. Don't get me wrong I'm sure they've paid very special attention to you. It's just that they don't have the best reputation to begin with. The Dr. told me they have a very heavy presence on the internet.. I don't know what he means by that but I have noticed that typing stenum on google yields a crap load of results, some of which don't speak very highly of the place.

If you really want my definition of surgery factory, here it goes: a hospital that spits out surgeries like candy. Read it yourself, every stenum story involves 'there were 10 other people going in for the same surgery'.

I'm sure there's a lot going on in the background that neither you or I know anything about, just like politics, but I know that when a warning is issued by a respected doctor I should pay attention to it for a reason.

Please don't get me wrong I'm just trying to protect myself here.

The best of luck to you sir. Please keep writing about your experiences, your recovery, and in particular, please answer all the questions people have about the procedure!