Corrections of fact about Dr. Bertagnoli and Prodisc royalty

[James Turner]

While in Germany with Prof. Dr. Bertagnoli, I ask him if he receives a royalty from Synthes for the Prodiscs he implants, which has been stated on this site. The answer is no, as this is against German law, although the opposite has been posted on this site.

I take umbrage with those who defame Prof. Dr. Bertagnoli on this site. He is a brilliant, kind and generous man, who has done more in this field than any single person. His critics on this site don't know what they are talking about medically, business-wise or legally. Their information is misleading to anyone searching for the truth about ADR.

Regards,
James

[Keano16]

Most of us are aware that many surgeons have known and unknown relationships with companies from medical field (instrument producers, pharmaceutical companies, etc). Also, as far as I know, any types of financial relationships between this companies and doctors are forbidden in most countries.

However, hidden truth is that all those doctors are in relationship with manufactures of expensive devices they use. Fore example, they don't give them money, they buy them airplane tickets to attend congress all over the world to promote their own surgical technique and companies products, etc. They pay them for their holidays, they pay them for their extra education, etc., etc..

I don't say this is in case of dr. Bertagnoli, I just say this to clarify that truth is not so clear as some of them state.

[Metalneck07]

I agree with Keano completely.Almost every doctor in some way receives some type of perk in return for supporting
various products.There are all types of way these companies thank doctors for their promotion of medicences,medical devices and etc.Every doctor in the world including Dr. Bertagnoli are in a Business and a Business means money even if it is given in the form of various rewards for there support.
Caitlin aka Metalneck07
** We can only hope that doctors only support products that they themselves would use personally.And stand behind the product 100% and not because they are hoping for some perks in return for their support **

[Hooch]

Absolutely, to think otherwise is to be naive.

A good sales team will establish a relationship with a leading surgeon, offer them opportunities to contribute to development and the resulting exposure it provides, all this will encourage the surgeon to sell coke rather than pepsi.

Caveat emptor.

[Carson]

Hi James. Welcome;

I've noticed in reading the forums when these sorts of posts (if there is a "sort") arise I often note a number 1 or a 2 for the thread starter's Post Count; I often find the original poster is someone with little or no history of participation. It really helps to provide some minor description of where you're coming from, eg, if you are a spine patient, a supporter of a spine patient, your current condition, procedures performed, etc. That along with a signature as you see in the signature-space below my post, Hooch and Caitlin's really lends others a hand in understanding your perspective.

[trkdoc714]

Once again we're deviating from the mission of the Spine Patient Society. Regardless of the surgeon, hospital, device or procedure, we need to maintain strict neutrality and focus on helping others make decisions based on research of verifiable and pertinent information. We don't need to add ambiguity to the already daunting issues facing patients looking for answers.

The Spine Patient Society is a place for Spine Patients to freely share information and feel supported in the process of seeking treatment for their spines. SPS will, in no way, question the ability of any surgeon, hospital or facility. As a Society, we will not take a strong position either for or against any medical professional. The SPS merely supports Spine Patients through the often murky waters of spine-related pain and in the common goal of pain relief.

Bob

[Gilbert P]

Bob

You are the man I agree lets move on

All doctors work for profit

Thanks

Gil

[Job13]

Here is some tips on finding and sharing information.

If anyone wants to find if their surgeon has patents/what patents, go to:
CIPO - Patent - 2534638

For example:
(72) Inventors: (Country) BERTAGNOLI, RUDOLF (Austria)

(73) Owners: (Country) SPINE SOLUTIONS, INC. (United States)

CIPO - Patent - 2509823

(72) Inventors: (Country) BERTAGNOLI, RUDOLF (Germany (Federal Republic of))
MARNAY, THEIRRY (France)
ECKHOF, STEPHAN (Germany (Federal Republic of))
MAGEE, FRANCIS P. (United States)

(73) Owners: (Country) SPINE SOLUTIONS INC. (United States)

Intervertebral implant, insertion tool and method of inserting same
Intervertebral implant, insertion tool and method of inserting same - Patent 7204852

For example:
Marnay, Theirry (Castelnau le Lez, FR)
Bertagnoli, Rud (Straubing, DE, US)
Magee, Frank (New York, NY, US)
Eckhof, Stephan (Tuttlingen, DE, US)
Assignee: Spine Solutions Inc. (West Chester, PA)

CUSTOMIZING AN INTERVERTEBRAL IMPLANT
(WO/2006/138067) CUSTOMIZING AN INTERVERTEBRAL IMPLANT

SYNTHES (USA) [US/US]; 1302 Wrights Lane East, West Chester, PA 19380 (US) (All Except US).
BERTAGNOLI, Rudolph[AT/AT]; Chimanistrasse 21, A-1190 Wien (AT) (US Only).
MARNAY, Thierry [FR/FR]; Clinique Du Parc, F-FR-34171 Catelnau Le Lez (FR) (US Only).

====================

If anyone wants to see if their surgeon receives consulting fees, go to:
http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...nalprogram.pdf
For example:
Bertagnoli, Rudolph: c3, g2, k2, m2, n2–Synthes, Inc.

http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...rogram_dvd.pdf
For example:
NASS 2007 Disclosures
Bertagnoli, Rudolf: c2, e2, f2, g2–ProDisc.
f. Board of Directors
g. Scientific Advisory Board

http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...nalprogram.pdf
For example, p124:
"Bertagnoli, Rudolf: Royalties: Synthes (Amount not disclosed);
Consulting: Synthes (Amount not disclosed); Research
Support (Staff/Materials): Synthes (Amount not disclosed)".

http://www.cirurgiadacolunavertebral...eplacement.pdf
For example (p.409):
"Dr. Bertagnoli is a paid consultant and lecturer for Synthes Spine."

====================

Also, when one knows if a doctor affiliates with a certain manufacturer/device making company, he/she can go to that company name, where additional information can be found. For example:
Synthes ProDisc

====================

Of course, there is always info from media releases that can give you an idea what one or another event, approval, research might be worth in terms of $$. This way one can get a grip of whats at stake money-wise for a particular device/product/medication etc if that product is able to or not able to successfully reach a customer (i.e patient), and how much $$ involved around it.

For example:
Spine Arthroplasty Society 5: When a Conference Becomes an Event
By Robin R. Young, CFA
'Fusion works about 60%-70% of the time if “works” means that the patient is happy with their level of pain relief.
Sixty percent to seventy percent success is enough for a $3 billion market. Ninety to ninety-five percent success is worth, we estimate, $20 billion-25 billion.'
Synthes 1H6 Results, Sales Up 15% - HealthpointCapital
Management aims to perform from 300 to 400 "perfect surgeries,"

====================

If a surgeon is pro/con a device or procedure, one can sometimes tell by their device trial articles, or other comments in the media (internet).

For example, I would assume that claiming 97 percent of the problems of implantation of a disc are iatrogenic, means that the surgeon generally approves of the device itself.

http://www.alphaklinik.de/de/dekkers..._dr_bertagnoli
Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli: 97 Prozent aller Probleme bei der Insertion von Bandscheibenprothesen sind ärztebezogen

Here, on the same theme, a surgeon points out superb, nearly perfect results. On the other hand, it is not easy to find such claims for other devices the surgeon may implant.

Indications for full prosthetic disc arthroplasty:... [Eur Spine J. 2002] - PubMed result
Beragnoli & Kumar: "The evaluation exercise showed that 90.8% of patients had excellent results, 7.4% had good results and 1.8% had fair results, with no poor results seen."
(98.2% good to fair, 0% poor results)

http://bcbsma.medscape.com/viewarticle/557712_4
Bertagnoli et al reported 97% success rates for monosegmental disc replacement procedures with ProDisc II.[27] In a recent report, the same authors published a similarly high success rate of 92% to 96% for multisegmental TDR (10× bisegmental, 15× 3-segmental)[26] and also described 4- and 5-level TDR procedures previously.[38] However, carefully selected other studies[8,16,28] as well as prospective randomized control trials could not confirm such high success rates, even for highly selected monosegmental cases.[9,13,17,18]

====================

So, in summary, to navigate the murky waters of spine pain, here is some tips on finding and sharing information:

- Check the patents. Does the surgeon share or own patents on a device he/she implants?
- Check the NASS disclosures. Does a surgeon get paid by the manufacturer for a device he/she implants?
- Check the surgeons trial data. Is it focused on one device? Is it unusually good news?
- Check the manufacturers disclosures (if any)
- Check if a surgeon rejected profiting from people's suffering, Association For Medical Ethics
Also: Nothing in Doctor's Hippocratic oath, says: I shall produce patents, invest in devices which I am entrusted to objectively evaluate, or deny responsibility or failures so as to protect my cash flow.

Yours truly,
Bored to tears
Bored: 1. To make a hole in or through, with or as if with a drill.
bored - definition of bored by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

[helmut]

Very detailed I must say, thanks for your research!

Here is some tips on finding and sharing information.

If anyone wants to find if their surgeon has patents/what patents, go to:
CIPO - Patent - 2534638

For example:
(72) Inventors: (Country) BERTAGNOLI, RUDOLF (Austria)

(73) Owners: (Country) SPINE SOLUTIONS, INC. (United States)

CIPO - Patent - 2509823

(72) Inventors: (Country) BERTAGNOLI, RUDOLF (Germany (Federal Republic of))
MARNAY, THEIRRY (France)
ECKHOF, STEPHAN (Germany (Federal Republic of))
MAGEE, FRANCIS P. (United States)

(73) Owners: (Country) SPINE SOLUTIONS INC. (United States)

Intervertebral implant, insertion tool and method of inserting same
Intervertebral implant, insertion tool and method of inserting same - Patent 7204852

For example:
Marnay, Theirry (Castelnau le Lez, FR)
Bertagnoli, Rud (Straubing, DE, US)
Magee, Frank (New York, NY, US)
Eckhof, Stephan (Tuttlingen, DE, US)
Assignee: Spine Solutions Inc. (West Chester, PA)

CUSTOMIZING AN INTERVERTEBRAL IMPLANT
(WO/2006/138067) CUSTOMIZING AN INTERVERTEBRAL IMPLANT

SYNTHES (USA) [US/US]; 1302 Wrights Lane East, West Chester, PA 19380 (US) (All Except US).
BERTAGNOLI, Rudolph[AT/AT]; Chimanistrasse 21, A-1190 Wien (AT) (US Only).
MARNAY, Thierry [FR/FR]; Clinique Du Parc, F-FR-34171 Catelnau Le Lez (FR) (US Only).

====================

If anyone wants to see if their surgeon receives consulting fees, go to:
http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...nalprogram.pdf
For example:
Bertagnoli, Rudolph: c3, g2, k2, m2, n2–Synthes, Inc.

http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...rogram_dvd.pdf
For example:
NASS 2007 Disclosures
Bertagnoli, Rudolf: c2, e2, f2, g2–ProDisc.
f. Board of Directors
g. Scientific Advisory Board

http://www.nassannualmeeting.org/Doc...nalprogram.pdf
For example, p124:
"Bertagnoli, Rudolf: Royalties: Synthes (Amount not disclosed);
Consulting: Synthes (Amount not disclosed); Research
Support (Staff/Materials): Synthes (Amount not disclosed)".

http://www.cirurgiadacolunavertebral...eplacement.pdf
For example (p.409):
"Dr. Bertagnoli is a paid consultant and lecturer for Synthes Spine."

====================

Also, when one knows if a doctor affiliates with a certain manufacturer/device making company, he/she can go to that company name, where additional information can be found. For example:
Synthes ProDisc

====================

Of course, there is always info from media releases that can give you an idea what one or another event, approval, research might be worth in terms of $$. This way one can get a grip of whats at stake money-wise for a particular device/product/medication etc if that product is able to or not able to successfully reach a customer (i.e patient), and how much $$ involved around it.

For example:
Spine Arthroplasty Society 5: When a Conference Becomes an Event
By Robin R. Young, CFA
'Fusion works about 60%-70% of the time if “works” means that the patient is happy with their level of pain relief.
Sixty percent to seventy percent success is enough for a $3 billion market. Ninety to ninety-five percent success is worth, we estimate, $20 billion-25 billion.'
Synthes 1H6 Results, Sales Up 15% - HealthpointCapital
Management aims to perform from 300 to 400 "perfect surgeries,"

====================

If a surgeon is pro/con a device or procedure, one can sometimes tell by their device trial articles, or other comments in the media (internet).

For example, I would assume that claiming 97 percent of the problems of implantation of a disc are iatrogenic, means that the surgeon generally approves of the device itself.

http://www.alphaklinik.de/de/dekkers..._dr_bertagnoli
Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli: 97 Prozent aller Probleme bei der Insertion von Bandscheibenprothesen sind ärztebezogen

Here, on the same theme, a surgeon points out superb, nearly perfect results. On the other hand, it is not easy to find such claims for other devices the surgeon may implant.

Indications for full prosthetic disc arthroplasty:... [Eur Spine J. 2002] - PubMed result
Beragnoli & Kumar: "The evaluation exercise showed that 90.8% of patients had excellent results, 7.4% had good results and 1.8% had fair results, with no poor results seen."
(98.2% good to fair, 0% poor results)

http://bcbsma.medscape.com/viewarticle/557712_4
Bertagnoli et al reported 97% success rates for monosegmental disc replacement procedures with ProDisc II.[27] In a recent report, the same authors published a similarly high success rate of 92% to 96% for multisegmental TDR (10× bisegmental, 15× 3-segmental)[26] and also described 4- and 5-level TDR procedures previously.[38] However, carefully selected other studies[8,16,28] as well as prospective randomized control trials could not confirm such high success rates, even for highly selected monosegmental cases.[9,13,17,18]

====================

So, in summary, to navigate the murky waters of spine pain, here is some tips on finding and sharing information:

- Check the patents. Does the surgeon share or own patents on a device he/she implants?
- Check the NASS disclosures. Does a surgeon get paid by the manufacturer for a device he/she implants?
- Check the surgeons trial data. Is it focused on one device? Is it unusually good news?
- Check the manufacturers disclosures (if any)
- Check if a surgeon rejected profiting from people's suffering, Association For Medical Ethics
Also: Nothing in Doctor's Hippocratic oath, says: I shall produce patents, invest in devices which I am entrusted to objectively evaluate, or deny responsibility or failures so as to protect my cash flow.

Yours truly,
Bored to tears
Bored: 1. To make a hole in or through, with or as if with a drill.
bored - definition of bored by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.