Decision time.

[Hooch]

Yeah it's Boeree. He's not a miracle worker and hype is just that, but he did provide a considered opinion, is very knowledgable, has plenty of experience, and he actually spoke to me the most even tho he is half a world away. The other local option is a good surgeon, but has a lot less experience on the spine with a general neurosurgical background. Not that I don't think he's a very good surgeon and would do a good job, but in the end I figured if old mate Boeree was local I wouldn't even have to think about it so I may as well follow my gut.

I'll discuss the facet thing further with him and if I'm not convinced I'll get him to do an anterior fusion at that level.



That's my l5\s1 facet. The left one is sagittal which is unusual but not a problem. It is significantly compressed which is a worry. If anyone can tell me what subchondral sclerosis looks like on a CT scan I'd be interested, as I'm well beyond punters knowledge now and would need to buy a textbook. Of course, this isn't a request for medical advice, just general knowledge. The medical advice will come from the surgeon.

The surgeon feels while there is degenerative change there is still plenty of articular cartliage left and has put adr in worse with good result. Facet contraindication is well known to vary amongst surgeons. My concern is obviously how far along it is and how long it'd last before end stage arthrosis, but I suspect these are unknowns and the degenerative process is not completely understood.

Anyway hopefully this will all happen pretty quickly now and will just get on with it.

[sportsnut3007]

Hooch, I dont know your pain but is no surgery a reasonable option or no? Are you able to walk and sleep at night? My mom has a friend who was a young man when he ruptured his l5/s1 and had a micro done in the late 80's. He is a fireman and he does have back pain at times and his back "goes out" but he is mostly pain free from what i know, although he could be taking pain pills I dont know about. Also, the "rock" ruptured his 2 lowest ones in his back in college football, and again I dont know his pain or yours, but he is able to wrestle and stuff. If you can walk and sleep at night maybe avoid surgery? I personally never had major pain long lasting from my herniation as mine is just a big bulge that went down, but I did hobble around college for a good 4 months with some sciatic flaming nerve pain and had some trouble sleeping. It was hell, but luckily for me a temporary hell that I dont want to ever go through again and will be happy with the ability of an old man to walk, eat , sleep, work, some mild exercising. Most on here who had surgery I believe could not function in their daily lives. Again, it is a personal decision, good luck with whatever you decide.

[Hooch]

Gday buddy, you suffered acute pain for a number of months then it relieved, for most people this is the normal process. Lucky for you. I'd politely suggest you don't really 'get' chronic pain, until you experience it. Certainly this was the case for me.

I don't really feel the need to justify my decision to strangers, hell even my family can't understand, but I can tell you it's now cost me my career, basic employment, quality of life and just the ability to do simple everyday things without significant pain.

Firefighting? Wrestling? Um... no.

[scotto74]

Hooch,

I feel for you, buddy. I don't know your pain, but I was still playing tennis up until a couple of years ago and now I am having trouble walking up a flight of stairs, carrying more than a few pounds, and wake up every day in pretty intense pain and compression in my neck. I think a lot of us on here can relate to how awful and debilitating chronic pain can be, and I just hope this surgery and your recovery finally brings you some relief and some better days. I'm also on the fence between a two-level cervical ADR with Nick and a hybrid with Dr. Bitan in NYC. I am scared but trying to stay hopeful that whichever route I pursue will ultimately give me some of my life back.

Hang in there, and all the best with your upcoming surgery.

Scott

[Hooch]

Thanks mate, sorry to hear you're in such a bad way. I'm lucky in that I don't constantly suffer that godawful intractable stuff, but then you start the day and your eyes start bulging... not fun. At the end of 3 years of that **** I could barely push a broom and I'm not a whole lot better now... just had enough.

Hope things work out for you, not that I'd ever want anyone messing around with my neck but at least the outcomes are pretty good.

Chris.

[KBear]

Hooch- I completely get the family not understanding, my husband and dad were the only ones who understood why I was having surgery. The rest of my family thought I was crazy and couldn't understand why I would voluntarily sign up for spine surgery. When you are in pain like that for years, you'll do just about anything to relieve it. I even had my step dad who told me, "I've had back pain for years, my doctor said to not have surgery." I was just thinking "Great for you, obviously your pain is a lot more manageable than mine is." We would never tell someone with cancer to not seek treatment, yet people think it's perfectly acceptable to suggest not to operate for pain. I can't say I got it either though, until I lived it. Best of Luck and I hope you have many pain free days ahead of you.

[Hooch]

Thanks Kathy. Yeah well that's right, when you can't manage it anymore what do you do? I've had pain and niggle ever since I blew it out 5 or 6 years ago, but for a long time I could manage, live my life, train around it, the idea of surgery for it I wouldn't even entertain it.

But when it takes the simple things we take for granted away from us, the things that define us and the things that give us joy in our lives, and leaves you managing chronic pain as best you can which is basically severe activity limitation, well that's when the individual has a choice they're entitled to make regarding surgery... I dunno if I'm making the right one, but is it the choice I'm making...

Anyway, I'll just get on with it now.

[KBear]

I just bumped this up, but I'll put the link here too as it describes what it's like to live in pain. Chronic pain letter

[mike86]

Hello Hooch!

I just sent you a message, I didn't realize you had made your decision already. If there's any word of advice I can give you, it would be: don't take advice from people that don't have back problems. A friend of mine has 2 ruptured discs and he wishes he could get surgery, but he doesn't have the insurance coverage for the operation. He would go through with it without thinking twice. When other people mention surgery, they say: "oh I've heard terrible things about spine surgery!"..

My mom came with me to London for the surgery, and she still has no idea what the surgery involved. She thinks they took out a bone because the bone was in pain hahaha. I've tried to explain this to her several times, especially because she has 2 cervical herniations and still thinks (after 20 years) that they will heal on their own. She was the main advocate against surgery, but completely respected my decision.

As for yourself, you're blessed with having many options available to you. You seem very knowledgeable on the subject, so i'm sure you'll be making the right decision.

As for Mr. Boeree, it's impressive how knowledgeable he is when you speak to him over the phone. His diagnosis was spot on, and his confidence was very relieving. My only concern was the lack of clinical history on the M6.. despite that, tests show it should last a lifetime.

Good luck! And please message me if you have any questions.

[Justin]

But when it takes the simple things we take for granted away from us, the things that define us and the things that give us joy in our lives, and leaves you managing chronic pain as best you can which is basically severe activity limitation, well that's when the individual has a choice they're entitled to make regarding surgery... I dunno if I'm making the right one, but is it the choice I'm making...

Good luck moving forward, Chris!

Hello Hooch!

I just sent you a message, I didn't realize you had made your decision already. If there's any word of advice I can give you, it would be: don't take advice from people that don't have back problems. A friend of mine has 2 ruptured discs and he wishes he could get surgery, but he doesn't have the insurance coverage for the operation. He would go through with it without thinking twice. When other people mention surgery, they say: "oh I've heard terrible things about spine surgery!"..

Mike, isn't this the truth?! The people that have the worst things to say about spine surgery are the one's that have never been in the OR.