Dr. Clavel and Artificial Disc Replacement (Spain) & Other Surgeons Overseas

[jss]

Another possibility ....

When I got my M6's, Dr Clavel preferred the Prestige over the M6, but implanted the M6 only at my insistence. While he liked the M6, his preference for the Prestige was that he had a long history of very good outcomes with it. He preferred the "devil he knew" over the one that he didn't. Similarly Dr Bertagnoli has a long history of good outcomes with the ProDisc-C. Perhaps he prefers the ProDisc for the same reason that Dr Clavel preferred the Prestige?

(BTW: I am told by third parties that Dr Clavel has since converted and now prefers the M6)

[trkdoc714]

JSS,

Just curious. Weren't you a little worried about asking Dr. Clavel to use the M6 over the Prestige when it was his "disc of choice"? The fact my surgeon had 1,000s of surgeries with the same disc was high on the list for my decision making process.

Maybe you were the patient that changed his mind. Keep on healing!

Bob

[jss]

JSS,

... Weren't you a little worried about asking Dr. Clavel to use the M6 over the Prestige when it was his "disc of choice"? ....

Bob,

It didn't bother me too much because of the content of his reply. He said that he really liked the M6 but had had too many good outcomes with his 200+ implantations of the Prestige to abandon it. He said that the Spinal Kinetics personnel in Spain up to that time were less than easy to deal with. The content of his pushing the Prestige over the M6 had nothing to do with a superiority of the Prestige over the M6.

My profession and education make me feel competent in making technical decisions about my own health care, but they don't qualify me to disagree with someone with Dr Clavel's eminent credentials. If he'd have started dissing the M6 ... I'm not sure what I've had done? I'm sure glad that didn't happen.

Jeff

[trkdoc714]

JSS,

Your story is a great example of how thorough research pays off.

I'm glad your's is a success story. You've been a great help and inspiration to others here.

Bob

[Margie]

HI bob
SO GLAD YOU HAD A GOOD OUTCOME. First of all you mention 2 levels. does this surgery allow for 2 levels--m6? Also how does one contact Dr Clavel?

[trkdoc714]

Margie,

I had the Maverick discs implanted at L4/5 and L5/S1 by Dr. Ritter-Lang at Stenum Hospital. Although he uses the M6 now, I think Dr. Clavel is in Spain. Where it rains. Mostly on the plains.

The M6 is the latest technology and looks like a great breakthrough in ADR design. If that's the direction you're headed, there are a lot of patients on SPS that can give you first hand experience with the M6L.

Bob

[jss]

HI bob
SO GLAD YOU HAD A GOOD OUTCOME. First of all you mention 2 levels. does this surgery allow for 2 levels--m6? Also how does one contact Dr Clavel?

Margie,

Dr Clavel implanted M6's at C3/4 and C6/7 almost exactly one year ago. I initially learned of his practice through Healthbase. I am having a better recovery than I could have ever hoped for.

Healthbase has an online questionaire that I filled out. They contacted me the next morning. They put me in touch with a handful of international ADR options. After a lot of research I selected Barcelona Spine Center and Dr Clavel. I believe that some people contact Barcelona Spine Center directly.

Because you will be exposed to other options, I would encourage you to not only contact Healthbase, but also Planet Hospital. Both of those online services will expose you to many international options. You may find some that you might like better than Dr Clavel.

Good luck, Jeff

[Margie]

Margie,

I had the Maverick discs implanted at L4/5 and L5/S1 by Dr. Ritter-Lang at Stenum Hospital. Although he uses the M6 now, I think Dr. Clavel is in Spain. Where it rains. Mostly on the plains.

The M6 is the latest technology and looks like a great breakthrough in ADR design. If that's the direction you're headed, there are a lot of patients on SPS that can give you first hand experience with the M6L.

Bob

Dear Bob
You are so funny. I appreciate all the advise. i am just starting out and it's a bit intimidating to think of travel and neck surgery in a foreign country where you don't speak the language. But you obviously have done well and as you say in spain!!
thanks Margie

[Margie]

Dear Jeff
Thank you for all the wonderful information. I am just starting the process and the US orthopod I saw yesterday was very discouraging of my going to Europe stating that they don't have thorough testing of their devices. some surgeons are not as good. that he no longer" cleans up "after the surgeries that fail from europe. that if a ADR fails then the device comes out and a fusion is done.

Real uplifting conversation:

He uses Prodisc but also does talks for prodisc. states it has a long good track record here. What is a girl to believe? In US I know how to find the top surgeons but how does a girl feel comfortable when the surgeon doesn't speak her language? This is worse than women are from venus men are from mars?

thank you again and would love to hear other folks experiences as well. So glad you feel so much better!:
margie

[jss]

Margie,

Yes, going to another country for ADR is not for everyone because it is replete with risks that don't exist if you stay in the US.

• Many US surgeons won't clean up a failed foreign ADR
• There is no protection from the US legal system in case of negligence, fraud, etc...
• The cost of treating complications must be paid out of pocket at the time of service
• If you become debilitated, the cost of travel home could rise exponentially

Most of us go overseas because we have to pay out of pocket, and the cost there is less than half of what it is here. The quality of care in Europe is comparable to that in the US (according to my experience). In my case, I went because of price and because I wanted the M6, which you can't get here.

Per non-English speaking surgeons... While Dr Boeree is an Englishman, Winston Churchill did state to the effect that the British and Americans were the only two peoples that were separated by the same language. Even so, I don't believe that language will be a barrier. Dr Clavel graduated high school and attended college and received much of his medical training in the US. Only occasionally did I detect an accent, and he was very easy to understand. Language will not be an issue with Clavel; however, NONE of the hospital staff spoke English; and it did present some challenges.

Yes, the ProDisc has a longer track record than the M6. The M6 has been implanted only since 2005. As of this summer, according to Spinal Kinetics' CEO, there had been 6,500 M6 implantations. I don't know the number for the ProDisc, but suspect that it is many multiples higher. While that should be of concern for someone pursuing an M6, be aware that many US surgeons have referred patients to European surgeons for an M6 implantation. Here is a link to a blog entry by our very own mike86 in which he chronicles a conversation with Dr Zigler of the Texas Back Institute. In that meeting, Dr Zigler refers him to Dr Boeree in England for an M6-L implantation.

Good luck, Jeff

Oh, and BTW: Nothing is worse than Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars; ESPECIALLY when the game is on.