The Gil thread. Gil, come tell us how you're doin!

[Carson]

Gil,

I've been following your posts and I see you're clearly ready to make the big move but funds, uncertianity about having surgery state-side of in a foreign land, timing (the usual) keeps obscuring a clear plan. I remember you mentioning you could still do a good deal of the basics, mowing the lawn, keeping up with the kids, but those things are getting increasingly difficult.

I was out mowing the yard this morning enjoying pains up and down the leg and got a little frustrated. Thought about you. Imagined you in a similar boat and thought: I'd like to see our man, Gil, find his best game plan/solution he can.

If you don't want to go over it, no sweat. But I really wanted to get an update on you, detail the factors/obstacles you're juggling, check group consensus as to a solid plan of action, and get you back to mowing the lawn and chasing the kids. I'd like to talk about it with ya over coffee on SPS when you can How are you doing?

[Gilbert P]

HI Carson

I am on the fence and falling off, Waiting for W.C. approval for a two level procedure in Colorado With Coflex and Staxx at two levels, giving me the worse problems L4 to S1. This does not address the other two levels above, L2-L3 being the worse, and L3-L4 bulging bad. However my L1 -L2 is perfect I need this level to stay that way.
Other surgical options are.
Four level fusion and Fusing my S-I joint Wyoming
Four level ADR Pro Disc, Germany $95,000
Two level Fusion Here in Jackson, Insurance would cover but other levels would not last.Not a good surgeon.
Two level fusion and Two level ADR with M6 U.K. $55,000plus travel lodging food etc.
Four level procedure Fusion, ADR,Fusion, ADR in Brazil lost contact and will not reply to any of my emails???
Stenium four level M6 $ 95,000
Waiting for a reply from Spain.
Other top surgeons will not help too many levels or will not accept Workers Comp
Tried to re finance our house Failed.
Selling all my toys Bikes,Skies, kids stuff,tools, Garage sale etc.
I am a prisoner trapped in my body. Cannot walk for more than Three miles, no yard work , Stiff every day, etc.
My neck is getting very painful looking into getting a MRI to see whats going on in there
Still no drugs, just some advil, etc
Loosing my mind, and not to mention the stress this is putting on my spouse,

I could go on but I think you get it

Send Money

Gil

[KanRunMo]

Gil,
Money is a huge problem to all of us considering the cost of ADR if it's not covered by insurance. It sounds like you've done your research. Something will work out. Sounds like U.K. (I assume Boree) is the best option at the moment. See what the medical tourism to Spain (Barcelona) costs even though you may not use their service, they probably would give you a price faster than directly to Dr. I've known people who got fusions that lasted 20 + years or a lifetime and were pain free or nearly pain free. We are thinking of you and hoping for the best.

[Carson]

I'm right there with you, Gil. As many of us do, I've learned to take a lot of my pain on the chin. I won't last at this rate either so my day on the surgens table is coming sooner or later. My initial reaction to your options:

Four level fusion in Jackson would be my last choice.
Surgery of any kind in Jackson would be my last choice (no offence to Wyoming surgeons)

Four level ADR in Germany doesn't strike me as your best approach either.
Four level ADR whether in Spain, Brazil or Germany -- 4 level ADR always reads precarious/unstable to me.

Without a doubt of the solutions offered you by each respective surgeon, the UK Surgeon's suggestion instinctively reads to me as providing the best approach and long term structural support by far.

I wouldn't fuse all four lumbar and I wouldn't ADR all four lumbar. ADRing the top two (L2-L4) and fusing the bottom two (L4-S1) sounds like a plan to me. Thats the vote I put forth understaning I'm just a spare guy on the internet, no medical training, don't know the extent or specifics of your condition but when putting myself in your place, factoring your relatively young age, and with trust the surgeons who've provided you these options were thorough in their assessment I would say the UK option reads most sound. I'd like to know other;s thoughts as well. You're going to get there, Gil, you;re going to make it through this as many before you have, keep that it mind every day.

[Kimberly]

HI Carson

I am on the fence and falling off, Waiting for W.C. approval for a two level procedure in Colorado With Coflex and Staxx at two levels, giving me the worse problems L4 to S1. This does not address the other two levels above, L2-L3 being the worse, and L3-L4 bulging bad. However my L1 -L2 is perfect I need this level to stay that way.
Other surgical options are.
Four level fusion and Fusing my S-I joint Wyoming
Four level ADR Pro Disc, Germany $95,000
Two level Fusion Here in Jackson, Insurance would cover but other levels would not last.Not a good surgeon.
Two level fusion and Two level ADR with M6 U.K. $55,000plus travel lodging food etc.
Four level procedure Fusion, ADR,Fusion, ADR in Brazil lost contact and will not reply to any of my emails???
Stenium four level M6 $ 95,000
Waiting for a reply from Spain.
Other top surgeons will not help too many levels or will not accept Workers Comp
Tried to re finance our house Failed.
Selling all my toys Bikes,Skies, kids stuff,tools, Garage sale etc.
I am a prisoner trapped in my body. Cannot walk for more than Three miles, no yard work , Stiff every day, etc.
My neck is getting very painful looking into getting a MRI to see whats going on in there
Still no drugs, just some advil, etc
Loosing my mind, and not to mention the stress this is putting on my spouse,

I could go on but I think you get it

Send Money

Gil

Gil,

What a struggle (sigh.) I only have 3 bad levels but they have been talking to/screaming at me for over 10 years. Last year's been the worst and I am also about to fall off the fence into (more) surgery.

I soooo understand the frustration and stress that tends to come along for the ride on a journey like this one. Like the pain and debilitation aren't enough? Despite their support and love, there's been a bit of collateral damage to a lot of folks under my roof as well (tall ones and little ones alike.) Don't forget that they love you and support you and a lot of their stress is most likely feeling unable to help you feel better. It's hard to watch someone you care about be in constant pain and not be able to do anything to help.

HANG IN THERE. You have better days ahead of you. And remember what Winston Churchill said...."If you're going through hell.....keep going." Keep moving forward. Keep looking for answers. Sometimes I think just deciding NOT to stay where you are, but deciding to move forward with a change, is the all important first step towards a better, more functional new tomorrow.

Hang in there.
Kimberly
(BTW, Jackson Hole is one of my very favorite places on the planet. Amazingly beautiful!)

[Cindylou]

Hey Gil, all in all......I think I have to agree with Carson on the UK option being your best one at the moment. And this too coming from a nobody, but you get what we mean. I am living proof that 3 level lumbar adr's, even from a top surgeon, do not necessarily provide optimal results. I, a little over 4 years post surgery, have moderate right greater than left facet arthropathy at L3-4 and ossification is seen (which means my disc at L3-4 is trying to auto-fuse with new bone); at L4-5 my facet arthropathy is more moderate on the left; at L5-6 I have decompression and moderate foraminal stenosis; I have moderate stenosis at L6-S1 with chronic compression of the right S1 nerve. And now at my L2-3 I have 1-2 mm of degenerative retrolisthesis with bulging. All that to say, proceed with caution. I think having my fusion at my L6-S1 has still helped support the adr's above it, but invasive surgery of any type makes major body mechanic changes through out the entire body and it's just the great unknown....how your particular body will react to such surgical intervention. You are also younger than me, so that is definitely to your advantage. Hang in there Gil. We are behind you all the way, whichever way you go! We love ya too! CL

[Gilbert P]

HI All

Thanks for your replies.

C.L. I do understand what you mean I should be grateful for what I have and to be very cautious having surgery and becoming much worse. There has to be something out there to get me through this mess?
I am starting to loose faith and giving up is not me. I need to get to work before we loose everything and we are close.
I will pursue more and research more.

Gil

[Justin]

Carson, thanks for starting this thread. Gil is a vital part of the Spine Patient Society and we have all been thinking about him, as he continues to move forward and find a "solution" for his spine problems.

HI All

Thanks for your replies.

C.L. I do understand what you mean I should be grateful for what I have and to be very cautious having surgery and becoming much worse. There has to be something out there to get me through this mess?
I am starting to loose faith and giving up is not me. I need to get to work before we loose everything and we are close.
I will pursue more and research more.

Gil

Hang in there, Gil. You have quite a decision ahead of you. However, I do know that you have done your research and the "right" choice will rear its head in good time.

Chronic pain can take the life right out of you. I've experienced this firsthand and I do hope that pain will only be a memory for you soon.

We are here to support you, my friend.

[KBear]

Thinking about you and praying for you and your family. Most of us thought a solution was impossible and somehow it worked out. Keep the faith!
Kathy

[Cindylou]

Amen to what Justin said. You are an incredibly vital part of this community Gil, and don't ever forget that. It's got to be that because this is a worker's comp case, that's why this is so muddied and slow, is that right Gil? I know you also want to be certain you are making the best choice for you and your body. I guess I'll just add that it's important to remember every surgery comes with risks but you're not looking to be perfect (I don't think), but to regain enough mobility to function at a job again and support your family. I know there is a best solution for you out there Gil. It's coming. And we're behind you all the way friend. Cindylou