L2-4 stenosis/facet degeneration - l4-s1 ddd help

[WPKat]

AJJ,

Oh I so agree with you. I have had 12 needles poked into my spine already (4 each during 3 separate procedures).

Because of my previous experiences, I am NOT looking forward to the discogram at all. I guess I am just a big wus :) I don't mean to scare you though, from what I've read, they inject a dye and take x-rays while you are consciously sedated (and really, that works very well). It can't be anywhere near as bad as burning spinal nerves.

Katie,

I see you've had a discogram done. Can you share your experience with us?

I agree with your assessment about his experience vs the Europeons. I didn't ask why it wasn't mentioned last year, because I know he was convinced that my severe central stenosis was the cause of my pain. When that was fixed and the pain persisted, he moved on to the facet degeneration. He was surprised to learn that the pain procedures in July didn't help at all and only made it worse. Unfortunately for me, I have more than one thing wrong with my back and any one of them could be responsible for my pain. It's an elimination process; albiet, a painful one.

ADR will not be covered by my insurance, whether it is done here or in Germany. The cost to have it done here would be at least double and I already know that the aftercare is no where near as kind as I've heard about Stenum's - that's important to me. He offered to put my case before a panel just to obtain a second opinion. The fact that he has done less than a hundred such procedures is not anywhere near enough to convince me to let him do it even if it was free :)

Thanks for the input!

K

[Katie]

Hi Kathleen,

I'm relieved that you are still considering Stenum for your surgery over your local surgeon. I wasn't sure from your earlier post, and I was a bit concerned with his minimal experience.

Perhaps my experience with a discogram isn't the best one to use for an example :D It was pretty horrid, but only because the cocktail of medications they used on me had absolutely no effect at all. Having two daughters had nothing on this for pain!

It was made worse because the surgeon was doing a new procedure he had learned about at a recent conference. Apparently a number of specialists have had great results in reducing lumbar pain by injecting the disc (or area around it) with Methylene Blue dye. It had no effect on me, other than having an extra three injections at full pain.

The surgeon was quite surprised and I think a bit upset that I was in so much pain. Also adding to the problem is the fact that I 'use up' anesthetic very quickly. At the dentist, I need almost twice as much, twice as often as a 'normal' patient, and I am hypersensitive to pain because I am on so much morphine. It was a perfect storm :)

They had already given me so much pain medication that they were afraid to give me any more, and I was in absolute misery, 8/10 on the pain scale, for the next twelve hours. But then by noon the next day, I was able to drive seven hours home.

If, on the other hand, I hadn't had those problems with anesthetic, I'm sure the procedure would have been fine. Everyone concerned was very kind and tried to make me as comfortable as possible after the procedure. I don't think anyone is touching my spine again without an epidural though

I have had at least ten spinal steroid injections before this with no problems, but also no pain relief. I'm just one of those weird ducks, every surgeon's nightmare!

I'd be happy to talk to anyone about this at length if you like.

[WPKat]

I have severe stenosis at L2-4 with facet degeneration at 3/4.
Also, DDD at L4-S1. Am wanting to hear from those who have these issues and have had procedures done (successful or not) and where you were treated.
Thank you, Terry

Terry,

Do you know what type(s) of spinal stenosis that you have on L2/L3 and L3/4? The link below provides a definition of the three types:

Different Types of Spinal Stenosis

My surgeon originally believed that the source of my back pain came from severe central stenosis, which he addressed March 2009. It took a while for my nerves to calm down after that, but now the numbness in my left leg is all but gone, except in my big toe when I stand - big deal. I'm not sure why he didn't address the severe foraminal stenosis then or why it hasn't been brought up as a possible cause of my continued back and leg pain. But for whatever it's worth, my pain specialist explained that he would have had to gone in from a different incision, either side of the middle of my back, to take care of it.

Also, have you been through physical therapy? Although I saw limited improvement after surgery, I did learn some really great back stretching exercises that I still do to this day.

I found it very beneficial to obtain a copy of my MRI reports and discs after an MRI was done (5 to date and most gave me the disc as I was walking out). I had to ask the surgeon for a copy of the report. I researched all of the terms on the reports to better educate myself about what was going on. Of course, the best I can hope to obtain is a laymen's understanding, but I find that's better than being completely clueless :)

More importantly, I have the information available for other surgeons to evaluate my condition.

K

[ajj1001]

Terry,

Do you know what type(s) of spinal stenosis that you have on L2/L3 and L3/4? The link below provides a definition of the three types:

Different Types of Spinal Stenosis

Good link (just a bit sad that I think I have or had all of them)

[WPKat]

Hi Kathleen,

I'm relieved that you are still considering Stenum for your surgery over your local surgeon. I wasn't sure from your earlier post, and I was a bit concerned with his minimal experience.

Perhaps my experience with a discogram isn't the best one to use for an example :D It was pretty horrid, but only because the cocktail of medications they used on me had absolutely no effect at all. Having two daughters had nothing on this for pain!

It was made worse because the surgeon was doing a new procedure he had learned about at a recent conference. Apparently a number of specialists have had great results in reducing lumbar pain by injecting the disc (or area around it) with Methylene Blue dye. It had no effect on me, other than having an extra three injections at full pain.

The surgeon was quite surprised and I think a bit upset that I was in so much pain. Also adding to the problem is the fact that I 'use up' anesthetic very quickly. At the dentist, I need almost twice as much, twice as often as a 'normal' patient, and I am hypersensitive to pain because I am on so much morphine. It was a perfect storm :)

They had already given me so much pain medication that they were afraid to give me any more, and I was in absolute misery, 8/10 on the pain scale, for the next twelve hours. But then by noon the next day, I was able to drive seven hours home.

If, on the other hand, I hadn't had those problems with anesthetic, I'm sure the procedure would have been fine. Everyone concerned was very kind and tried to make me as comfortable as possible after the procedure. I don't think anyone is touching my spine again without an epidural though

I have had at least ten spinal steroid injections before this with no problems, but also no pain relief. I'm just one of those weird ducks, every surgeon's nightmare!

I'd be happy to talk to anyone about this at length if you like.

Katie,

I'm sorry to hear that your experience with the discogram was so excrutiating. I really feel for you that the sedation medications were ineffective. I just cannot imagine how hard it was to get through the procedure without it.

Lucky for me, the conscious sedation they used on me so far has been quite effective during each procedure I've had. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but they did the facet joint injections twice (interesting story). Anyway, they were pretty liberal with it and all I needed to say was "more please," which I found myself saying a lot when they burned my spinal nerves. The doctor and medical professionals were exceptionally kind and even laughed at my attempts to joke. Afterwards has been a problem though, since every procedure was followed by an increase in back pain.

You drove home the next day? Or were you a passenger? I only ask because I'm surprised that you could drive so soon afterwards and it also tells me how fast your back calmed down (good news).

TEN spinal steriod injections? All at once or 10 separate procedures? How many injections were done each time?

K

Members,

Anyone else have an experience with a discogram that they are willing to share with me?

K

[WPKat]

Good link (just a bit sad that I think I have or had all of them)

AJJ,

Oh WOW, I feel fortunate to only had 2 out of 3. Has anything been done to address it?

K

[ajj1001]

AJJ,

Oh WOW, I feel fortunate to only had 2 out of 3. Has anything been done to address it?

K

Had two bulging discs removed and had bone spurs removed. The surgeons say I am average sized but the central channel is small so any little thing can cause a big problem.

[WPKat]

Had two bulging discs removed and had bone spurs removed. The surgeons say I am average sized but the central channel is small so any little thing can cause a big problem.

AJJ,

During my research into stenosis, I discovered that of the three types - central stenosis is the worst. Mine was addressed during surgery last March and I believe it is now down to mild to moderate (vs severe) - at least one problem was resolved! :) Have they suggested doing something about it for you?

I see that you had ADR and then revision surgery. Since I am now considering ADR surgery, I am very interested to hear about your experience. Do you mind sharing?

K

[ajj1001]

I see that you had ADR and then revision surgery. Since I am now considering ADR surgery, I am very interested to hear about your experience. Do you mind sharing?

Ask away there was nothing like this back in 2002 when I had my ADR surgery. Its good to hear how others have got on and such a useful source of information

[WPKat]

Ask away there was nothing like this back in 2002 when I had my ADR surgery. Its good to hear how others have got on and such a useful source of information

AJJ,

Where did you have the ADR surgery done? How was your recovery? What device was used?

As I understand it, a revision surgery is done if the ADR is unsuccessful. Am I correct that ADR didn't work out for you and that they removed the artificial discs and performed a fusion? If so, how long before you knew that ADR wasn't working out? Did the fusion help? How do you feel about ADR now?

Have you ever had a discogram? If so, what was your experience with it?

Thanks! :)

K