Stenum Hospital and Dr. Ritter-Lang

[WPKat]

Dear Kathleen,
Just wanted to check in and say good luck. You are being very wise in your approach to ADR. I know it is easy to be afraid of your judgement while in constant pain, but sometimes that pain can give you clarity. This clarity will help you especially when dealing with your insurance company. Just like Katie, I have not been to Stenum. I have heard so many positive things about their skill and treatment of spine patients. You will know what is right. I only have one level that is degenerated, and I am about one step ahead of you in the decision process. You are doing great! There is something about making the commitment and getting a surgery date that will give you a LOT of much needed peace and hope.
CD

Will you be going to Stenum Hospital for ADR or elsewhere? What was the deciding factor(s) in your decision?

Although I will certainly make sure my insurance company is billed, I would be surprised if they paid even a penny of it - especially since they have refused to pay for a spinal cord stimulator. I fully expect to pay the entire expense out-of-pocket. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't mean I won't try to get them to reimburse my medical expenses - it will just not be a deciding factor as to whether or not I will opt for ADR. I am not independently wealthy either - just saved for a rainy day.

Believe me, knowing I even have an option has given me much needed hope. Before I found Stenum Hospital, I thought my only option besides a life on pain meds was a spinal cord stimulator and a future fusion. I could sure use some peace though.

Thanks,

Kathleen

[mike86]

Yes, I would receive Spinal Kinetics' M6-L replacements at L3/L4 and L4/L5. I have to admit that I am not mechanically inclined, that said, I looked at the design and it seems solid. My husband, who is mechanically gifted, was impressed with the design.

Do you have reservations regarding the design of the M6-L?

The design of the m6 looks fantastic. I'm glad you're going through with this!

[scduggan]

Kathleen,
I will be going to Texas Back Institute in Plano for my surgery. My deciding factor was a mix of things, and what seems like a long and really bumpy road. I ended up getting four opinions on my DDD. All were in agreement as to my candidacy for ADR....also that ADR is the best choice for me. I guess my options were fusion, ADR or a life of narcotics. On the surface my decision to go to Texas was purely financial. I have insurance but it is UnitedHealthcare. They will not pay for my surgery and denied my appeals three times. I travelled to Texas to see Dr. Zigler, get his opinion, and see if I was eligible for a clinical trial they are doing. This trial is for the Axiomed Freedom Lumbar disc. If you meet all the criteria and are willing to sign an informed consent contract, you are agreeing to surgery with a 50/50 chance of getting the Freedom disc or a ProDisc. Now, even though my original deciding factor was financial, I know this is a really GOOD thing. My surgeon AND Texas Back are world-class and cutting edge. My surgery and hospitalization are paid for by AxioMed. I cannot wait to finally be doing something as I feel sometimes like I cannot do this another day. I admire your choice to see someone to help with the mental aspects of chronic back pain. Had I not found this situation that was my next step. I think it is the really intelligent people in life who see they need help and go out and get it. I am so excited for you and the potential Stenum surgery. There is a light at the end of the tunnel!
CD

[trkdoc714]

Kathleen,

I had 2 of the Maverick discs implanted on March 27th, 2009. My recovery has been uneventful and complete. Although I wish I hadn't needed to have the surgery, I am convinced I made the right choice.

The Stenum staff and surgeons are very skilled and caring. If I had to do it over, I'd go back there in a heartbeat.

Good luck on your decision!

Bob

[Ben]

I went through Stenum in June. Great experience all around. Excellent staff, laid back, great surgeons. Do you have any specific questions? Several of us have been to Stenum.

[WPKat]

I went through Stenum in June. Great experience all around. Excellent staff, laid back, great surgeons. Do you have any specific questions? Several of us have been to Stenum.

Just off the top of my head:

Did you have any complications? If so, please explain.
Did you have any issues with your spinal nerves afterwards? If so, for how long?

Are you pain free now? Or if not, have you experienced a significant reduction in pain?
In other words, was it beneficial for you?

How long did you stay in the hospital?
How long did you stay afterwards for recovery before you traveled back home?
How often did you receive physical therapy and massages?
Were they responsive to any needs you might have had after leaving the hospital?
How long before you felt you had recovered from the operation?

Are you able to live an active lifestyle now?

Thanks,
K

[Ben]

I am pain free! I am going skiing next week.
No surgical complications. My nerves in my lower legs were crazy from the distraction pain post surgery for two months. Couldn't sleep at night for a long time. I ended up taking gabapentin 300mg and it really helped quiet my legs down. Once that side effect went away I did very well. I am very active now. I exercise every day. I shovel snow. I am living again!

I was in the hospital 4 days. At the Park Hotel for 11 days and then home. The trip home was hell. Airline foul ups.
I received massage every other day at the hotel. Did PT at the hospital and exercised walked etc while at the hotel. I walked 2+ miles a day at the hotel. Sore, but we all were on great pain meds so could do it.

The staff at Stenum is first rate. They are really low key though. So if something is on your mind...ask! One of our group was not a happy person the entire time he was there, and since he has been home nothing has worked either. The rest of us did what we were told, how we were told to do it, and how often we were told to do it and did great. Atittude is everything. You have to want to do well.

I am 8 months post adr surgery now and living well again. I may try and play golf this spring. I would not hesitate to send you to Stenum.

[rhatzy]

Just off the top of my head:

Did you have any complications? If so, please explain.
Did you have any issues with your spinal nerves afterwards? If so, for how long?

Are you pain free now? Or if not, have you experienced a significant reduction in pain?
In other words, was it beneficial for you?

How long did you stay in the hospital?
How long did you stay afterwards for recovery before you traveled back home?
How often did you receive physical therapy and massages?
Were they responsive to any needs you might have had after leaving the hospital?
How long before you felt you had recovered from the operation?

Are you able to live an active lifestyle now?

Thanks,
K

I was in the hospital for 5 days, downtown for about 7 days. I was in more pain after surgery and had to take more meds. The pain finally just went away after about 4 to 5 months and it has been two years and no pain and also shoveling snow. I flew business class from Frankfort to Chicago. Sitting on the plane awaiting takeoff from Frankfort was excruciatingly painful. I had a load of opiates including oral morphine which did nothing. As soon as we tookoff, I laid that seat back and finally got some relief. The rest of the flight was bearable. Everyone is different in their recovery. It depends on what kind of condition you were in before.

Mark

[WPKat]

Ben and Mark,

I really appreciate your sharing with me and it's music to my ears to hear how well you are both doing now!

If I go ahead with the procedure (and I'm not there yet), I want a realistic expectation for recovery. Before my back surgery, I was told I could go back to work in two weeks. Oh really? At 2 weeks I was still in a boat load of pain. Looking back on it now, I cannot believe that it was even realistic given the extent of the surgery he performed on two different levels. The funny thing is that when I saw him earlier this month, he commented about how long the scar on my back is and I just couldn't help but chuckle because it was his own handywork that put it there.

Given that experience, I am a firm believer that an "unrealistic or overly optimistic" recovery period just sets people up for disappointment and needless worry.

I am also fine and can deal with most anything as long as I know what I should expect: i.e., increased pain (of course), nerve pain in my legs or some other pang here and there. I don't like surprises after major surgery at all because, at least for me, it causes unnecessary concern and worry. Just lay it all out on the table please.

It also helps when they are available after the surgery. A lot of the problems I had after my back surgery could have easily been avoided with better after care and communication, which amounted to a peice of paper with general instructions. In this respect, I really like Stenum's approach to after care.

Thanks again ... K

[badbatzmaru]

I just had surgery at Stenum 7 days ago. I think overall it was a positive experience. I was surprised to learn that I wouldn't have an opportunity to meet w/ Ritter-Lang before the surgery (my evaluation letter said I'd meet with him and Dr. Zechel prior to the proceedure). I only found out he was the "phantom" surgeon about 24 hours before I was due in the OR so I didn't turn back. Malte Petersen had told me on two separate occasions that he'd bring Ritter-Lang to see me following the procedure, but I never did see the guy. Kinda makes me wonder... I know he is very shy and introverted and he does have the experience I was looking for, so this was the compromise I had to make (unwillingly though).

The care is pretty good - the nurses are excellent and the staff seems very supportive. However, communication seems not to be their forte. For example, one patient had such a complicated case that they implanted a different disc model than discussed prior to surgery (one other than the models I was told in my consult that they were exclusively using) . Obviously, there was a technical rationale behind the decision, and of course, you sign waivers so that the surgeon can do what he needs to do once he goes in and has a look around... but the problem was, nobody told him what was done until WE (the patients) noticed on his X-rays that our devices were different - this was 3 days following surgery (they do follow up X-rays on the Monday). Of course, when the issue was raised, the doctors addressed it, but it wasn't until we started asking questions. I wonder if they would have ever communicated these details if we hadn't raised the issue.... it's just a little weird. Culture differences, maybe...

We had a few conversations with their staff about expectations coming from the US (and I should note that I've been to Germany about a dozen times previously and know the culture pretty well) apparently they have slightly different thinking on what kind of treatment we actually get in the states. I never had a surgeon that didn't want to evaluate me personally well before the procedure, or who didn't come out and talk to the patients immediate family just following the conclusion of the operation, or come to check-up and debrief the patient once he/she was conscious and awake from anesthesia. Apparently, some of the Stenum international department thought all US doctors act like Ritter-Lang, so it should have been no surprise. And keep in mind, for domestic patients it's probably less of a a big deal since they aren't paying >30kUSD out of pocket.

Anyway, I don't want to bash - they did an excellent job - I just want to enlighten because somehow I missed the "phantom" surgeon aspect of Ritter-Lang prior to heading to Germany. Once I got there and saw it personally, it all made some more sense to me... but this is just how it is. If I had to do over again, I'd probably end up right back at Stenum because I have a better chance of insurance reimbursement there, because my company has offices and HR staff ready to assist me in Germany, and because Stenum has tons and tons and tons of experience doing this. I didn't have a complicated procedure (single level), so I probably could have gone to say, Barcelona, for example, and saved some dough, but not sure I'd do that if I did it again.

It's difficult traveling so far to get a procedure done - I miss home and want to be in my zero gravity chair right now sitting w/ my dog who's stuck in a kennel... but hey, when you know ADR is the right thing for you, and you want the best opportunity for success, Stenum is a very good potential choice for you. Let me know if you want to discuss my experience further offline.