Second Opinion (Upright MRI)

[mmarsh]

Howdy all. Had a second opinion today and feel sort of like I'm back to square one. If this guy is right, it's better for me. He thinks that my problem is L5-S1, not L2-3. That is where my symptoms are and the nerve test indicates loss of feeling there as well. However, the diagnostic tests do not show a problem at that level. I've been inclined all along to go with the symptoms and not the MRI, etc. It was good to get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. He is not influenced by past events. He looked at the reports from MRIs, CT, x-ray, disco and others and thinks I should get another MRI from a different machine. Possibly the MRI is not picking up the problem. He thinks it may be stenosis on the left side. He also wants me to get another ESI at L5-S1. Maybe it will help this time. I did get very minor and short-lived relief after the first ESI. What a journey! Meanwhile, the pain continues! I forgot to take my afternoon meds and by the time I realized it yesterday it took a long while to catch up! Will try NOT to repeat that bobo! Best to you all.

M-

[KBear]

Did your surgeon mention anything about a standing MRI? There is a thread on here about them, let me go find it.....
Here it is: Sitting MRI

[mmarsh]

KB

Wow! This is most interesting. I wonder where in Cal this thing is? Time for more research! Thanks!

M-

[rfane]

KB

Wow! This is most interesting. I wonder where in Cal this thing is? Time for more research! Thanks!

M-

They have one at Vision Upright MRI in San Jose.

Here's their website: Vision Stand-Up MRI, Vision Upright MRI, Vision Multiposition MRI, Vision Weight-Bearing MRI Center in San Jose, California - Standup Open Multiposition MRI

[mmarsh]

Thanks rfane. I found their website after I posted. The doc doesn't like the clarity of these MRI's. Hopefully they will improve because the science behind them is very logical. I'm having an MRI tomorrow in San Ramon. He likes the machine they have. I truly hope it shows what he thinks is going on at L5-S1 (stenosis on the left side). It could certainly make my life a whole lot easier if this is the problem area.

M-

[rfane]

My Chiropractor sent me to have an MRI there. I was seated during it, and could watch a movie. What he liked about it, was that it showed my neck with a normal load on it, supporting the weight of my head. The Ortho just recently sent me for another MRI, wanting higher quality images than what the first one provided.

[mmarsh]

Roger

I think the idea behind the MRI is valid, but the doc didn't think the quality was good enough. I'm hoping the second MRI I did last week will show him what he thinks is going on. If it's L5-S1 as opposed to L2-3, my options are greater and the outcome will be covered by ins. Keep your fingers crossed for me! Best of luck to you with your neck. I have had problems there too, so I know what your going through. After my accident I went to a chiropractor that specializes in Atlas Orthogonal Chiropratic. See if you can find one in your area (mine is in Lafayette). He was able to help me in 3 visits. I still go every week or two, but have no more head aches.

[Justin]

This abstract is 5 years old, but I thought I would pass it along:

Seated MRI Increases Insight Into Degenerative Disc Disease: A Study of 320 Patients

American Society of Spine Radiology
General Spine, 2005; Francis W. Smith, MD; © 2010 ASSR, all rights reserved.

Purpose

For the past twenty five years we have studied the lumbar spine, by MRI, in the supine position. This position is often the most comfortable for the patient, when in fact their symptoms are often worse when either standing or sitting. With the availability of an

Methods & Materials

320 patients (163 males and 157 females) aged between 24 and 78 years (mean 57 years), suffering from low back pain and sciatica, were scanned using a 0.6T

Results

Of 960 discs examined 522 were considered to be normal. These "Normal discs" showed no significant change in disc height between supine and sitting.
2 – 4mm reduction in height anteriorly on forward flexion.
2 – 4mm reduction in height posteriorly on extension.
438 showed degenerative change in their nuclei, half of which behaved like normal discs and are considered to be normal and classified as degenerative change. The other half were classified as "Degenerate discs" showing 1 – 3mm change in disc height between supine and sitting. Reduction of greater than 3mm in disc height on flexion and extension and varying degrees of disc prolapse.
108 prolapsed discs showed reduction of posterior prolapse on forward flexion & increase in extension. Interestingly 23 showed the reverse.

Conclusion

We conclude that imaging of the spine in the erect standing and seated positions adds significantly to the diagnostic ability of MRI. The ability to study changes in the appearances and behaviour of those discs with reduced signal from their nuclei, will aid in the further understanding of degenerative disc disease. (my emphasis)

[mmarsh]

Justin

Thanks for the input. I think this type of MRI has great promise for spineys. The 2nd opinion doc didn't like the quality of the one he new about. After reading the result of the newest MRI, I think maybe I should have pushed harder for one. The new MRI showed nothing different than the old one. How is it that I'm experiencing this level of pain? What is the deal? I'm beginning to lose my way here. I'm so frustrated that the symptoms are not matching the tests. Although the nerve test does show this level (L5-S1). I'm not really sure what to do from here. If anybody has an idea, I'm open for suggestions. I'm at the point where I'm thinking that I'm not making myself clear to the medical people involved. I don't like this feeling! Anyway, before I get too far off track, please give me some guidance...anybody!

M-

[KBear]

M- So sorry you are frustrated and feel like you aren't getting anywhere with the doctors. My biggest advice is to not sugar coat your symptoms, how you feel, etc. to your doctors. If you feel like you want to jump off a cliff to escape the pain and fantasize about suicide because of it, tell them. If the pain is the worse pain ever, express that. I am not a whiner by nature and will generally smile and say "I'm good." Even though this was not the message I was trying to portray to my doctors, I went in with my happy face, carried on a conversation and would say I hurt..... but my body language and attitude were not conveying that. In my chart, it repeatedly says, patient appears to be in no pain. I obviously was better at faking it than I realized. When I finally reached the end of my rope, I went in and gave it all to the doctor. I told him I wanted to die, that I wished I could die, that this was the worst pain ever and I couldn't take another freaking minute of it. It was then that they listened. I didn't want to sound like a crazy woman, but that is how I felt and that was what finally made them listen to me.