New Member -- Was Looking at DASCOR, now what?

[Rev. Zen]

Greetings,

I was recently diagnosed with degenerative disc disease in my L5-S1 disc. My orthpedic surgeon said he could use the
ProDisc-L to replace my damaged disc. Initially, I was fully onboard with this and started making strides to have this
procedure ASAP. After some research, I felt that I did not want to take such a big leap.

There seem to be many other alternatives and technoloiges that are out there that would offer better results with less
cost. Take, for example, the DASCOR system by Disc Dymanics (who I just recently discovered is defunct). The DASCOR system
removes the nucleus of the damaged disc, keeping the outer section of the disc (the annulus?) in tact. Then a liquid
polymer is inserted into the area that the nucleus resided. The liquid polymer then cures and expands, leaving the patient
with restored disc height, full range of motion and compression, and the potential to have ADR surgery if this procedure
does not take.

Now that DASCOR is not an option (I had really hoped to get into their ID trial this year), are there other nucleus
replacement procedures or devices that may offer a clinical trial anytime soon?

My biggest concern is that I would like to get back to being athletic and playing basketball, tennies, volleyball. I feel
that prosthetics like the ProDic-L and the Charite' do not offer the compression factor (for lack of a better term) that
the nucleus replacement devices offer.

The Freedom Lumbar Disc seems like an excellent candidate and I have contacted them in regards to participating in their
clinical trial. My only caveat with that is that they are using either the Charite' or the ProDisc-L as a control and it is
a 50-50 randomization. It still may be the best alternative right now.

I guess I would like to hear your take on how much of a factor the compression portion of my rambling really is in terms of
long term disc health for the surrounding discs as well as the resiliency of these "soft devices" over time.

Sorry to drag this out. I am typically not this long-winded in my posts, but seeing as this is my first post on this forum,
I wanted to get in as much as I could.

Thank you for you time and attention.

Rev.

[Justin]

Hi Rev,

Welcome to the Spine Patient Society!

I created a new thread for you so that we could welcome you appropriately and help address your concerns. Thanks for sharing the details of your situation, as it helps the Members here help you.

Can you provide us with more about your spine history? Current pain levels? Functionality?

Once again, welcome and I will chime back in soon about devices with "compressive" properties.

[ajj1001]

and Rev.

alison x

[Rev. Zen]

Thanks for your welcoming words, guys.

I guess I should take a minute to tell you about myself. I am a 36 y/o male with DDD in my L5-S1. I was diagnosed a couple of years ago by Dr. Mather out of Chicago, IL. He suggested ADR and his device of choice is the ProDisc. Before we had gotten to the ADR alternative, however, we tried more concervative treatments to no avail (e.g. massage therapy, physical therapy, epidural injections, zero-g therapy....ok I made up the zero-g therapy, but I am sure we would have tried it too if we had the means).

Anyway, after many discussions with Dr. Mather and learning more about the procedure, I decided to look for alternatives. Becasue once the disc is removed, then the only option left if the artificial disc does not take is spinal fusion. Spinal fusion may not be a bad alternative, but I am of the opinion that the more motion I can preserve in my back, the longer it will last. I have found research that shows that fusion tends to add more stree to adjacent discs, which makes them prone to failure sooner than normal. With that in mind the ProDisc was definitely a better alternative.

The more I researched the more I fell in love with the DASCOR system. By using the DASCOR sytem, not only would I be able to restore my disc height, but I would also maintain the 6 degrees of movement that I should have in a disc. Another bonus is that the DASCOR system would not require any spikes or keels to be jabbed into my vertebrae. Even though I realize that this is a necessity with some devices, I constantly envision those keels and/or spikes acting as wedegs and splitting the vertebrae in half the way my father used to do with firewood.

In addition, if the DASCOR system failed for whatever reason, then a simple discectomy could be done to remove the device and an ADR, such as the ProDisc could be used. Then if that fialed for whatever reason, then fusion was still available.

Wow, I did not realize I could jabber on like this. Must be soomething in the cyber-air or something b/c I usually tend to lurk on other forums.

Anyway, now that DASCOR is dead, I feel very lost. I had put all of eggs (and hopes) into the DASCOR basket and not it's gone. I did notice that there is a clinical trial for NUBAC, however, they only go down as far as the L4-L5 disc and since my issue is with the L5-S1 I am not a candidate.

I have looked into the Freedom disc and have spoken to them about the clinical trial that is happening right now. Even though it would involve totally removing the bad disc, the device would still give me the 6 degrees of freedom I would hope to maintain. The only issue there is that the control device for the trial is either the ProDisc or the Charite (depending on where you go for the procedure), both of which do not account for disc compression.

There is another trial that just opened up that is even less invasive than nucleus replacement. it is called Biostat[/URL]. That may be an option, but I fear my disc height may be too small to meet the requirements. We will what they say.

Alright, I am spent. I hope I have helped some of you cure your insomnia. That's my story in nutshell.....albeit a rather large one!

Rev.

[Carmen]

Big to Rev. Zen,
I hope this forum will give you some new options if that is what you were looking for. I also was examined by Dr. Mather, I think if I remember correctly he was from M and M. I was going to go back to him anyway but glad to see that he has made some changes in his options for back surgery. My appointment with Dr. Mather consisted of what he was doing at the time. After he took an x-ray it became apparent that I also had scoliosis, which just added to my repertoire of problems with my back. He mentioned that my surgery would be very complicated. He suggested that I have physical therapy and then come back to him for the surgery.
I never actually did that. I decided to add a few more opinions before I did anything he determined would be as he put it "complicated." I think he was out of Good Sam so I decided to try a few more hospitals. Chicago Mag. came out with the best doctors in the area. I found out that a few friends of mine actually had their surgeries done at Rush Medical Hospital. (a teaching hospital) Before I actually go through with this 5-6 level surgery I was advised by many at SPS to get a few more opinions. I thought I would go back to the doctors that kind of know me to see if they had any different opinions from when I first had my initial appointment. So welcome to this wonderful site. You will receive more information than you ever thought was out there. The others on here are very supportive and knowledgeable. Good luck to finding just the information you were looking for. If you want you could email me.

[Rev. Zen]

Thanks, Carmen.

I have been to RUSH and I plan to follow up with them in regards to issues. They seem very proficient in this field of study and they also have a stem cell type treatment that is in trial right now that I may qualify for.

[scduggan]

Dear Rev. Zen,
Welcome to SPS ! You will find a lot of information here. I am sorry to hear about the nucleus replacement disappointment. I can only imagine how you feel knowing you now have to change gears. What information did your discogram provide? I am assuming your annulus was healthy enough to just replace the nucleus. Unfortunately I do not have any answers to your questions. I am due for ADR surgery at Texas Back Institute on February 18th in the Freedom lumbar trial. It is drastic. My annular tears prevented saving the disc. Deep in my soul I guess I am hoping to wake up from surgery and be told I received the Freedom disc. The positive thing about ProDisc is it just seems to have so many happy patients who have returned to a normal life. The statistics for it look really good.

Good luck with your search and finding something right for you. Keep us posted.

CD

[jss]

I guess I would like to hear your take on how much of a factor the compression portion of my rambling really is in terms of
long term disc health for the surrounding discs as well as the resiliency of these "soft devices" over time.

Isn't that the question? That fusion accelerates adjacent segment disease has been clinically known for decades, but I am unaware of any studies that assign this phenomenon specifically to the loss of axial compression.

When I had my double ADR (C3/4,C6/7) in Nov'09 that question was of paramount importance to me. A goal for me was to preserve my two remaining cervical discs for another 40 years. Right or wrong, in my judgment the best way to do that was with an ADR that cushioned axial compression. So, I went to Spain and had two Spinal Kinetics M6's implanted.

That implant has more moving parts than any other cervical implant out there, and may well be more susceptible to failure than a simpler ball and socket device; only time will tell. Having spoken at length with the Spinal Kinetics engineers about their testing procedures, I was/am satisfied that I'll get several years out of these implants, even if I don't get the full 30 years that they were targeting. Though I don't want to have to undergo surgery to replace these implants every several years, my bigger goal is to preserve my two remaining natural cervical discs.

All that said, cervical surgery is easy compared to lumbar. A single cervical level can be operated on many many times. Such is not the case with lumbar surgery, making reliability of a lumbar implant much more important than reliability of a cervical implant.

That's quite a dilemma. Good luck!

[Rev. Zen]

jss,

I think you and I are thinking along the same lines. I am as uncertain as the next lay person in regards to how much of a factor axial compression is with maintaining adjacent disc health. My train of thought was simply, "IF I can get some kind of device or system that will emulate, as closely as possible, my natural disc then that will one less factor to have to be concerned with after the fact.

It may be that axial compression will have no significant role in adjacent discs, but why risk it if I do not have to?

[jss]

It may be that axial compression will have no significant role in adjacent discs, but why risk it if I do not have to?

Ditto.