Who has had an epidural as well as general anesthetic for lumbar surgery?

**Katie** · 08-26-2009, 10:32 AM

The surgeons at Stenum told me that they always do an epidural as well as either a general or a 'twilight' drug when doing their lumbar ADR surgeries. They said that the body feels less pain and recovers better when not so stressed by added pain. Also that the patients suffer less pain than those without the epidural post surgery.

How many here have had the double dose, and if so, how well did it work?

I am looking at a hybrid surgery in my lumbar, and would like to ask my surgeon for this as well. I'd like some anecdotal evidence to pass on to him.

**ajj1001** · 08-26-2009, 11:08 AM

Had one in 2002 when I had my adr. It took three awkward painful attempts to place it (crappy back). It didn't work on half of my midrift area for the pain despite a few big top ups (bolus? not sure of the proper term). Had two screaming nights of pain trying to sort me out. Needless to say I didn't even contemplate as pain relief for surgery this time. Went for it for pain relief as I am intolerant to morphine. Found fentanyl worked really well this time.

**Justin** · 08-26-2009, 07:02 PM

Katie,

I know Bob (trkdoc714) had an epidural while he was at Stenum; Ben was recently at Stenum as well and might have had an epidural.

It might be worth shooting them each a PM or email.

Good luck.

**KBear** · 08-26-2009, 07:25 PM

I wish I had had an epidural for pain relief, if it can make having a baby easy (which it did for me with the 2nd one), then surely it could have kept me from being tremendous amount of pain I was in post surgery. Not trying to scare you; but I literally prayed for to die for the first 2 days because the pain was so bad (that was with oxycodone and morphine). I would definitely get one lined up, if any way possible.

**Katie** · 08-26-2009, 08:08 PM

Thanks Kathy. I seem to be one of those who does not take anesthetic well too. Aren't we the lucky ones! Even with the dentists, I need extra shots initially and then half way through, as the drug wears off quickly.

After this last episode where none of the drugs worked in the OR, I am hoping that the surgeon and friends will take my request seriously.

Justin, thanks, I will send them a note if they don't chime in first.

Alison, I had that lovely failure as well when having my first baby. Only half of my body was 'frozen', with the other half having all the lovely labour pains. When I prayed for half as much pain, that wasn't what I had in mind

Guess I better be more specific with the big guy next time

Did you have all that pain after the surgery? Was it from sitting up when you weren't supposed to? I was told after mine to stay flat for 24 hours or I would have a wicked headache, but I don't think that's what you meant?

**KBear** · 08-26-2009, 09:38 PM

I also have issues at the dentist. I have had them tell me there is nothing else they can do and make me 'tough it out',

this has happened several times and once during a root canal

.

I also had epidural issues when having babies. It seems my problem is that my body processes the medication very quickly and that it takes a large amount to have any effect. When my first was being born, I got the epidural, 30 minutes later I needed more drugs, 30 minutes after that, it had worn off completely. The anesthiologist was in an emergency c-section, so I had to go without. 36 hours of labor, 1 hour of epidural

. It was horrid!

With my second one, I got the epidural early on, it wore off, the dr. gave me the dose of medicine that a woman getting a c-section would get and it did NOTHING! He then, took out the epidural and put in a new one completely (this ran the risk of giving me a migraine for a month; but a risk I was willing to take to avoid my prior experience!). So, 10 hours of labor, all but 3 hours with an epidural!:thumpup:

**rhatzy** · 08-26-2009, 10:07 PM

At Stenum, they gave me a choice. I told the anesthesiologist that I didn't want any of my senses alert. So, They gave me an epidural, which was left in for pain mangement for 2 days, and probably a general as I didn't remember a thing. However, I've had generals before and felt lousy for a couple hours after coming to. At Stenum, when I woke up, I wasn't groggy at all. I know a couple of the people in my group had the twilight thing with the epidural and they remembered it was like someone was banging on their bed when actually it was probably the surgeons pounding in the ADR's. They didn't remember much or feel anything.

I hate needles and actually the placing of the epidural was quick and pretty easy. I was expecting a lot worse.

Mark

**Cindylou** · 08-27-2009, 01:56 AM

I had an epidural in March of this year for my right SI Joint fusion. I remember the doctor commenting when he came in for visitation the next day, how well I looked, sitting on my bed with my computer on my lap, typing away. In fact, he asked if he could take my picture. I said "sure!" That is, I believe, the only time I had one along with any of my surgeries. My other surgeries my pain was stupid, over the top, drive myself off a cliff pain if I could have.

Especially my 3 lumbar adr surgery. I say go for it!

**ajj1001** · 08-27-2009, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Katie

Alison, I had that lovely failure as well when having my first baby. Only half of my body was 'frozen', with the other half having all the lovely labour pains. When I prayed for half as much pain, that wasn't what I had in mind

Guess I better be more specific with the big guy next time

Did you have all that pain after the surgery? Was it from sitting up when you weren't supposed to? I was told after mine to stay flat for 24 hours or I would have a wicked headache, but I don't think that's what you meant?

I had three awful days, one in HDU that I have all but blocked out and 2 more on the ward when I was in huge amounts of pain. I didn't move for a long time (all tubed up). I didn't have any pain relief having the three kids so am well prepared to deal with pain but this was something else.

If you have had one failure then is epidural an option for you? I would not have any further surgery without a viable pain relief option, morphine makes me really ill and my blood pressure drop. I had a couple of appointments with the anaesthetist to sort out a plan for post op. They were very good and I'm alot happier that if I need further surgery that at least I'll be comfortable afterwards.

**trkdoc714** · 08-27-2009, 06:01 AM

Katie,

I had the twilight sedation. I was given two tablets as they put the epidural IV in before surgery on Friday afternoon. The IV was painless and quick. I was slightly awake during the surgery. I remember seeing the Dr. Ritter-Lang to my left (I assume he was making the incision) and once while he was tapping one of the Mavericks in place. I remember thinking: this should be painful.....oh, look, bubbles.

Truly it was much better (for me) than a general. I was aware enough shortly after surgery to answer questions from Dr. Ritter-Lang and his team after getting settled in the recovery room and then talking to my wife on the phone to ease her fears (she was really upset after a well known spine broker concocted yet another Stenum horror story that coincided with my surgery). I was in and out until they took me back to my room the next morning and totally pain free.

The epidural was left in until Sunday morning. After it was removed, all I was given (or needed) was 2 daily doses of 10mg oxycodone. I had no issues with low blood pressure as I had from the generals I had in previous surgeries. I experienced much more pain in the day leading up to my surgery than during or afterward.

If I had to do it over, I'd go with the twilight again.

I hope that answers your question.

Bob