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Deep Stabilizer Muscles Turn off with Pain?

This is a discussion on Deep Stabilizer Muscles Turn off with Pain? within the Spine-Related Conditions & Conservative Spine Treatment forums, part of the General Spine Discussion Forums category; Bear with me here folks I came across an article on one of my horse forums that talked about Pilates ...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Katie's Avatar
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    Default Deep Stabilizer Muscles Turn off with Pain?

    Bear with me here folks I came across an article on one of my horse forums that talked about Pilates for horses. Yes, we do almost the same therapies on our horses as we do ourselves...massage, water therapy, chiropractic adjustments, you name it.

    But this article started with an interesting statement, that the deep stabilizer muscles both in horses and humans turn off when hit with pain, and do not turn back on after the pain stops. Since I am usually more concerned with my horses' welfare than my own, I saved it to use on them, but thought that the information might be helpful here.

    I also wondered if anyone knew of the studies quoted in the article. Here is the paragraph that caught my eye.

    "Preliminary results from research suggest you can strengthen your horse’s core muscles to help him be healthier, no matter his job in life. "One of the things we know from human medical research is that when people get back pain, the deep stabilizer muscles turn off. When the back pain goes away, these muscles don't turn on again. There is a very high recurrence rate of back pain, something like 70-80% in people (Hides, et. al, 2001). But if they go to physical therapy and learn how to turn on these deep stabilizer muscles, then the rates of recurrence of back pain are reduced to about 30%. We suspect the same thing is happening in horses."


    Justin, you may want to move this to a different forum. I thought it may help some of us in future treatment.
    Severe compression of spinal cord, flaval ligament, etc. at C4/5 & 5/6.
    Herniation and compression, at L3/4 to L5/S1 plus spondylosis at the latter level. Severe allergy to most metals.
    Three level surgery in Brazil with Dr. Luiz Pimenta on March 17/2010 using non-metal appliances. L5/S1-PEEK cage, ALIF; L4/5-PEEK cage, XLIF; C5/6-NuVasive NeoDisc. Three separate approaches, two minimally invasive. Currently minor residual back pain, from SI ligament and still overdoing things . Therapy and chiropractic treatments helping immensely. Gone from being almost bedridden to near normal activities including gardening. Life is gooooood!

  2. #2
    Founder / Administrator Justin's Avatar
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    Hi Katie,

    Thanks for posting this information. Here's some info on Hides research on the Multifidus Muscle: Click here.

    This is a good article: The Multifidus Muscle - Key to Spinal Stabilization?

    I hope these help.

    Justin Averna
    Founder & President, Spine Patient Society™
    www.SpinePatientSociety.org
    A 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Nonprofit & Charitable Organization


    • 1994: Football Injury, Severe Hyperextension
    • 1997: Snow Skiing Injury
    • 3/7/1997: Laminotomy L4/L5
    • 1999 & 2003: Motor Vehicle Accidents (not at fault both times) --> Grade V Annular Tears L4/L5 & L5/L6
    • 11/15/2003: 2-Level ProDisc® L4/L5 & L5/L6*, *lumbosacral transitional vertebra --> Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    • 4/2008: 4.5 years pain-free before "new" leg pain
    • 5/14/2009: Dynamic Stabilization System L4/L5, Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    I'm here to help.
    Questions? Suggestions? Need help with registering, creating a signature, etc.?
    justin (at) spinepatientsociety.org


    Disclosure: I have no financial relationships with any surgeons, spine clinics, device manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, etc. -- the SPS Board of Directors serve without compensation.

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    Moderator KBear's Avatar
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    Thanks Katie and Justin, will have to look into this more.....
    31 years old- 1/06- In wreck with 18 wheeler at 25 years old; 6/06- Head on collision on Interstate, both wrecks other drivers fault. Numerous MRI's, PT, chiropractic, acupuncture, TENS therapy, massage therapy, facet injections, epidural injections, Nerve study, Discogram, confirms pain in L4/5, IDET, decompression, Bi-lateral neurotomy L3/4/5, denied by insurance twice, in Active L clinical trial, had surgery March 17, 2009 in Miami, FL- received Active L disc at 29 years old. Pain and medication free as of October 2010!Mommy to Emma- 8 years, Ava- 6 years & had baby Eli after ADR, via c-section on March 25, 2011 , completely pain free still!

  4. #4
    Senior Member daveinaustin's Avatar
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    Looks like I'll have some good reading for Monday or Tuesday!

    Katie and Justin, thank you for posting this very interesting topic and research!

    -Dave
    Discectomy/Laminotomy, 1999
    L4-S1 DDD, 10/06
    Stalif Fusion L5-S1, 3/07
    Intrepid Fusion L4-L5, 7/08
    Increasing pain since solid fusing, 1/09
    Bilateral Transforaminal Injections 3/09
    Facet Joint Injections (L3-S1) 4/09
    RF Ablation (Medial Branch) 5/09
    CT Scan, MRI w/ contrast (no new info) 5/09
    Latest:
    - I wake up with no pain
    - Stand/sit for 15 mins., pinching pain begins
    - Pain at center, core L4-L5
    - Lying down, pulsing/throbbing pain for 2-3 hours
    - Taking 6-8 Norcos/day
    SCS Implant 8/31/09

  5. #5
    Founder / Administrator Justin's Avatar
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    Joel actually posted about the multifidus muscle and it's dysfunction in Spine Patients previously in this thread: PT; multifidus muscle

    The link to the website he referenced changed. However, there are many good YouTube videos on the multifidus muscle:


    Justin Averna
    Founder & President, Spine Patient Society™
    www.SpinePatientSociety.org
    A 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Nonprofit & Charitable Organization


    • 1994: Football Injury, Severe Hyperextension
    • 1997: Snow Skiing Injury
    • 3/7/1997: Laminotomy L4/L5
    • 1999 & 2003: Motor Vehicle Accidents (not at fault both times) --> Grade V Annular Tears L4/L5 & L5/L6
    • 11/15/2003: 2-Level ProDisc® L4/L5 & L5/L6*, *lumbosacral transitional vertebra --> Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    • 4/2008: 4.5 years pain-free before "new" leg pain
    • 5/14/2009: Dynamic Stabilization System L4/L5, Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    I'm here to help.
    Questions? Suggestions? Need help with registering, creating a signature, etc.?
    justin (at) spinepatientsociety.org


    Disclosure: I have no financial relationships with any surgeons, spine clinics, device manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, etc. -- the SPS Board of Directors serve without compensation.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Katie's Avatar
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    Thanks Justin. I wasn't sure just how factual this article was, and I'm glad to see that it really is useful. That means I can use it for my horses too

    I really appreciate the links that you put up. I often miss these things unless they are shoved into my line of vision. Guess the massage therapists and others will be getting some more business.
    Severe compression of spinal cord, flaval ligament, etc. at C4/5 & 5/6.
    Herniation and compression, at L3/4 to L5/S1 plus spondylosis at the latter level. Severe allergy to most metals.
    Three level surgery in Brazil with Dr. Luiz Pimenta on March 17/2010 using non-metal appliances. L5/S1-PEEK cage, ALIF; L4/5-PEEK cage, XLIF; C5/6-NuVasive NeoDisc. Three separate approaches, two minimally invasive. Currently minor residual back pain, from SI ligament and still overdoing things . Therapy and chiropractic treatments helping immensely. Gone from being almost bedridden to near normal activities including gardening. Life is gooooood!

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    Moderator Cindylou's Avatar
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    Thank-you Justin and Katie for posting the article and the links to the multifidi muscle on YouTube. Very interesting. Time to book a massage. he he. I am noticing with my p.t. working my core in the water, it is slowly coming back from the dead. I knew I had some obliques in there somewhere.
    • January 2000 MVA passenger, used jaws of life to retrieve me, neck injury and months of PT
    • June 2001 Bicycle accident, 2 compression fractures at T12/L1, Vertebroplasty Sept. 2001
    • April 2006 right hip, labral tear and repair
    • April 2007 3 level ProDisc @ L3/4, L4/5 & L5/6✷ ✷Lumbosacral transitional vertebra; Dr. Rudolph Bertagnoli
    • July 2, 2008 ALIF & Laminectomy @ L6/S1
    • July 30, 2008 re-opened 28 days later to remove bone cement that had leaked onto S1 nerve root
    • August 2008 Pulmonary embolism, double pneumonia, collapsed left lung, re-hospitalized 1 week
    • March 10, 2009 Right SI Joint Fusion
    • April 27, 2010 2nd right hip arthroscopy to remove adhesions and release psoas muscle
    • September 30, 2010 lumbar facet rhizotomy
    • December 9, 2010 12 bilateral lumbar trigger point and steroid injections
    • December 23, 2010 12 more bilateral trigger point injections w/o steroid
    • February 15, 2011 ESI bilaterally in lower lumbar...relief only for few days. Considering 1 more.
    Did Spinal Cord Stimulator trial from 5/11/11-5/17/11 with excellent results; Spinal Cord Stimulator surgery is Monday,
    July 18, 2011

  8. #8
    Founder / Administrator Justin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindylou View Post
    I am noticing with my p.t. working my core in the water, it is slowly coming back from the dead. I knew I had some obliques in there somewhere.
    This is good news! My core is going to take a while to get to get strong again.

    Justin Averna
    Founder & President, Spine Patient Society™
    www.SpinePatientSociety.org
    A 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Nonprofit & Charitable Organization


    • 1994: Football Injury, Severe Hyperextension
    • 1997: Snow Skiing Injury
    • 3/7/1997: Laminotomy L4/L5
    • 1999 & 2003: Motor Vehicle Accidents (not at fault both times) --> Grade V Annular Tears L4/L5 & L5/L6
    • 11/15/2003: 2-Level ProDisc® L4/L5 & L5/L6*, *lumbosacral transitional vertebra --> Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    • 4/2008: 4.5 years pain-free before "new" leg pain
    • 5/14/2009: Dynamic Stabilization System L4/L5, Dr. Rudolf Bertagnoli
    I'm here to help.
    Questions? Suggestions? Need help with registering, creating a signature, etc.?
    justin (at) spinepatientsociety.org


    Disclosure: I have no financial relationships with any surgeons, spine clinics, device manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, etc. -- the SPS Board of Directors serve without compensation.

  9. #9
    Banned
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    Default Re: Deep Stabilizer Muscles Turn off with Pain?

    I've messed around with a lot of bs treatments for my back, but this pt based on these principles is the only one (apart from general fitness) that has made a significant ongoing improvement. I don't think it's a co-incidence that it's firmly grounded in scientific research.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jack-of-all-trades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deep Stabilizer Muscles Turn off with Pain?

    Great Stuff!! I'm trying them tomorrow.
    Low back pain became somewhat dehabilitating in 2005
    Have had 11 steroid injections, IDET, Trial for nerve stimulator, PT, chiropractic trial, practically every med known to mankind. Discogram indicated three diseased levels with L5-S1 being the most likely pain generator. Post minimally invasive PLIF with internal fixation (titanium) on 12-28-09 of L5-S1. Doing better than expected. Last opioid 7/9/10. Five months pain free, then my neck turned against me. MRI on 12/1/10-- disease at C2 to C7. Only surgical alternative is to fuse entire C-spine. Diagnosed now with Aggressive Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis with cord & brainstem active lesions

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