[Artificial Disc Replacement / Lumbar] Failed Back Surgery Germany, Dr. Bertagnoli, Three Level Disc Replacement Pro-Disc L Lower Lumbar

[daveinaustin]

Jamie,

I'll PM you on how to contact Dr. Pimenta. I sincerely wish you good luck with Dr. Pimenta and/or Dr. Blumenthal at TBI. I have had communication with both of them, and they are wonderful, compassionate surgeons, who truly try to help their patients.

Note that Dr. Pimenta is from Brazil. Depending upon your insurance, there could be some issues. For instance, I would have lost my family's insurance if Dr. Pimenta performed surgery on me, even if the procedure was in America and I paid for it.

Don't get me started on US insurance companies. I'd hate to waste your time on it. Fortunately, this might not be an issue for you seeing that you were previously treated by Dr. B.

-Dave

[jamie5136]

I am sorry for the pain you are having. I remember reading that you were going to Germany. You did everything right. Dr. B is not going to just leave it at that. He will come through for you. You have support here and with your boyfriend. Give it time, it will prevail. Carmen

Yes, I am sure Dr. B is a good surgeon and his intentions were pure. However, over this 10 month follow-up, my L5-S1 subsidence was overlooked and I was told everything was in perfect alignment and that everything was stable. I complained and complained about the increased sitting/laying pain and I was told it was not the discs. I complained about the clicking in my back and said it was normal. So, once someone told me abou this sinking, they confirmed it... and, to top it off, they want more money from me to correct something that could have been corrected a LONG time ago. Does that seem fair to you? It is my judgement that whatever needs to be done, should be done at no charge. This is my opinion. I have no money left to go overseas to pay for their oversight. I know that sounds bitter, but I am.

[Carmen]

Yes, I am sure Dr. B is a good surgeon and his intentions were pure. However, over this 10 month follow-up, my L5-S1 subsidence was overlooked and I was told everything was in perfect alignment and that everything was stable. I complained and complained about the increased sitting/laying pain and I was told it was not the discs. I complained about the clicking in my back and said it was normal. So, once someone told me abou this sinking, they confirmed it... and, to top it off, they want more money from me to correct something that could have been corrected a LONG time ago. Does that seem fair to you? It is my judgement that whatever needs to be done, should be done at no charge. This is my opinion. I have no money left to go overseas to pay for their oversight. I know that sounds bitter, but I am.

I feel so sorry for the predicament that you are in. I always thought Dr. B was the answer to our prayers. Your situation certainly proves him wrong. It is not fair what is going on. I do hope he comes through for you. Carmen

[jamie5136]

I feel so sorry for the predicament that you are in. I always thought Dr. B was the answer to our prayers. Your situation certainly proves him wrong. It is not fair what is going on. I do hope he comes through for you. Carmen

Everyone, including those who promote him, were shocked at this oversight. I am not saying he is a bad surgeon by any means, but he does not do his own follow-ups, his assistant does, Dr. Fenk Mayer. So, on the whole, she is the one to blame, but she works for him, so they should be on the same page and pay closer attention on follow-ups. I mean L3-4 subsided w/in 1 week. He saw this and injected the cement stuff at that level and the one below, but not far enough down into S1. So, when I came back to Dallas and this one started to sink and then keep sinking, I was told, by her, that all was well.... I just wish Dr. B knew about this oversight. Perhaps he does by now. Honestly, it is not their fault it subsided (even though my bone density was good), but had they caught it earler, a posterior fusion would be far more successful. Now, it has sunk so deep as is at a neutral position according to them and something must be done now or my facet joints will be affected. The degree of tilt now is 14 degrees. Had it been half that and caught, I would not be in this predicament. There is nothing I can do now except try to get the best plan of action.

[Justin]

I feel so sorry for the predicament that you are in. I always thought Dr. B was the answer to our prayers. Your situation certainly proves him wrong. It is not fair what is going on. I do hope he comes through for you. Carmen

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in spine surgery (this goes for pre-peri-postoperative time frames). Every invasive procedure inherently has risks. At the end of the day, surgeons are human--they have their successes and failures.

[jamie5136]

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in spine surgery (this goes for pre-peri-postoperative time frames). Every invasive procedure inherently has risks. At the end of the day, surgeons are human--they have their successes and failures.

Yes, I agree, but this is why we have laws...to protect innocent people from failures and oversights in medicine. I certainly understand that medicine is a science, but I also think people should be responsible for their failures, especially in medicine... or, held responsible to some degree. The sad thing is, is that this could have been a nearly 100 percent success if the x-rays would have actually been read properly.. I work in the medical field as well and if our company made something that killed someone, but we did not do it intentionally, or it was a mistake or a failure, we are still held responsible. It's almost like if a doctor has to amputate the right leg, but accidentally amputates the left one... Ooops... So, should the patient just live with the doctor's human failure? Sorry, just trying to make a point. As you can tell, I am still angry; I guess a natural human response to something like this. I have almost lost my job, cannot do anything socially, my relationship with my partner is suffering and I never want to leave the house. Oh, and I am broke.

I would really just like to move forward, find someone to fix me and move on. I would prefer that Dr. B revised me, but I cannot afford it... I wonder if insurance would pay... But, we all know how insurance companies are. I am awaiting a quote. Otherwise, everyone on here has given me some great references for people in the US...

I will keep everyone up to date.

[Phylly]

Hi Jamie,
You said that you received my PM sent other day with the name of my Dr. who removed my discs anteriorly. I understand your anger at Dr. B. not reacting in time and not being there for you. I had some similar feelings about the Dr. who put mine in. When surgeries fail we want our Drs. to be there for us. I knew something was wrong and fusing over them was not what I wanted to do except that is what my Dr. wanted to do. Most Dr.s want to fuse posteriorly because it is the safest for the patient and they don't want you to die on the table. A good vascular surgeon is a must if you go in from the front and remove your discs. I realize now that I just did not know enough and things can go wrong. Like Liz, three Drs. said ADR. for me. Part of the problem is when you go to the big ADR docs they want to put in ADR's. Some of us are not meant to have them.

I consulted 4 Drs. regarding removal and there is another Dr. in LA who also removes but wanted to do it like Dr. Pimenta through a lateral approach. He has taken out quite a few. I agree with Liz, you cannot get to the L5-S1 through a lateral approach. If you go that way you will only get the ADR's above the L5 out. The surgeon who removed my discs is relatively unknown but a prince of a guy and will be there for me. IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY DANGEROUS OPERATION. That is why Dr.s don't want to go in the front. All the major blood vessels branch out at L4-L5.

I am still not pain free at 10 months but a lot better. I also have a coexisting piriformis problem that has responded well to Botox injections. This has helped my sitting a great deal. I may ultimately have my piriformis removed but at least I know that I had multiple pain generators. Make sure that you know where the pain is from.

I admire Liz a great deal and I know it took a lot of courage for her to write that email to you. She spent at great deal of time researching her options. Sadly her outcome left her in a great deal of pain and she wants you to know what you are getting into. Make sure that your decision factors in all the outcomes. This is not something to be taken lightly. I was very lucky and I know that. Luck should not be the only part of the equation. You need to find a skilled surgeon with whom you can trust and will stand by you after the surgery. I am so sorry that you are in this situation and hope that you have a successful outcome.
Phylly

[jamie5136]

See comments below:

hi jamie,
you said that you received my pm sent other day with the name of my dr. Who removed my discs anteriorly.

Can you give me his name... I have been given so many names that i get confused.

I understand your anger at dr. B. Not reacting in time and not being there for you. I had some similar feelings about the dr. Who put mine in. When surgeries fail we want our drs. To be there for us. I knew something was wrong and fusing over them was not what i wanted to do except that is what my dr. Wanted to do. Most dr.s want to fuse posteriorly because it is the safest for the patient and they don't want you to die on the table. A good vascular surgeon is a must if you go in from the front and remove your discs.

Yes, i understand it is dangerous, but sometimes a must. I guess only time will tell if i need a fusion from the front. I will start off with the posterior, but still need a good surgeon for that. But, did you leave in your adr, or remove it?

I realize now that i just did not know enough and things can go wrong. Like liz, three drs. Said adr. For me. Part of the problem is when you go to the big adr docs they want to put in adr's. Some of us are not meant to have them.

My body hates the adr. They all sunk.

I consulted 4 drs. Regarding removal and there is another dr. In la who also removes but wanted to do it like dr. Pimenta through a lateral approach. He has taken out quite a few. I agree with liz, you cannot get to the l5-s1 through a lateral approach. If you go that way you will only get the adr's above the l5 out. The surgeon who removed my discs is relatively unknown but a prince of a guy and will be there for me.

Okay, so you did have your adr removed. Dr. B said to leave it in?? This is so odd to me. What are your thoughts?

It is a tremendously dangerous operation. That is why dr.s don't want to go in the front. All the major blood vessels branch out at l4-l5.

Sadly, i know this. My three level went fine from the front, but i do have some numbness still in my upper left leg, but nothing else in my abdomen.

I am still not pain free at 10 months but a lot better. I also have a coexisting piriformis problem that has responded well to botox injections.

Some guy said this could be my issue and there is some exercise or position to get in to determine if this was the issue. I did this and it did not hurt... I did not know if it was supposed to. Botox sounds like a great idea. But, i would want to know if this was my issue. What kind of doctor would do this?

This has helped my sitting a great deal. I may ultimately have my piriformis removed but at least i know that i had multiple pain generators. Make sure that you know where the pain is from.

Well, it is not my si joint, my facet joints or my ganglion impar, so i am not sure what else is left.

I admire liz a great deal and i know it took a lot of courage for her to write that email to you. She spent at great deal of time researching her options. Sadly her outcome left her in a great deal of pain and she wants you to know what you are getting into.

Do you have a link to her story? I belong to four sites and i get confused with the stories. Sorry!

Make sure that your decision factors in all the outcomes. This is not something to be taken lightly. I was very lucky and i know that. Luck should not be the only part of the equation. You need to find a skilled surgeon with whom you can trust and will stand by you after the surgery. I am so sorry that you are in this situation and hope that you have a successful outcome.

Oddly enough, i would prefer to go back to dr. B... Ultimately it was not his personal fault that my x-rays were overlooked. I just know that he could do the posterior fusion with the dss tooling the best... Not sure if i can find someone qualified enough in the states. I hate going to germany alone again.

[Phylly]

Dr. B is a world renowned Dr. There are hundreds of successes by him on this site. If you have the most confidence in him and he will repair you then that would be a good choice. I'll send you the other names again.
Phylly

[jamie5136]

Dr. B is a world renowned Dr. There are hundreds of successes by him on this site. If you have the most confidence in him and he will repair you then that would be a good choice. I'll send you the other names again.
Phylly

Yes, I would love to go to Dr. B. It just might be cost prohibitive. Plus, the posterior fusion with DSS can be done here, but I would still prefer to go there. I am out of money though.