[Spinal Fusion / Lumbar] L4-L5 Fusion

[drummerman]

KBear, Greg, Cindylou, ajjl00l, Justin,

Hey you wonderful people. Thank you all your caring words.

Had the MRI yesterday. Good and "I ify news." There was no damage to the operation site nore hardward. The "ify" news is that L-3 is showing some disc bulging which could possibly be causing some pain (particularly when I try and practice these long hours. I practiced about 3 and a half hours today. The Dr. said (which I did) to sit up erect and not slouch. Guess thats bad. Anyway, I read somewhere that using a ball helps. I tried it. It seemed to. But the L-3 is worrisome. It does seems KBear and Cindylou that you were right. The site might have been irritated somehow.

Thanks Greg for your nice compliments but its been 35 years ago that I studied with these guys and I have not played in a long time. But...I know what it takes... 4-8 hours a day if I want to be as good as I once was. In reference to L-3 the doctor gave me a prescription for "traction." What the heck is that?? Is that any good??

Thanks Justin. Wow you have suffered much also. Sorry.

Ron

[drummerman]

ajjlool,

I forgot. The amount of work involved here really interrupts moving around allot. I need to be really forcused.

thanks

[Greg]

KBear, Greg, Cindylou, ajjl00l, Justin,

Hey you wonderful people. Thank you all your caring words.

Had the MRI yesterday. Good and "I ify news." There was no damage to the operation site nore hardward. The "ify" news is that L-3 is showing some disc bulging which could possibly be causing some pain (particularly when I try and practice these long hours. I practiced about 3 and a half hours today. The Dr. said (which I did) to sit up erect and not slouch. Guess thats bad. Anyway, I read somewhere that using a ball helps. I tried it. It seemed to. But the L-3 is worrisome. It does seems KBear and Cindylou that you were right. The site might have been irritated somehow.

Thanks Greg for your nice compliments but its been 35 years ago that I studied with these guys and I have not played in a long time. But...I know what it takes... 4-8 hours a day if I want to be as good as I once was. In reference to L-3 the doctor gave me a prescription for "traction." What the heck is that?? Is that any good??

Thanks Justin. Wow you have suffered much also. Sorry.

Ron

Ron,

Thats somewhat good news about the MRI. Its good that you dont have anything to worry about from the surgery but I see your concern about L3. A bulge is a herniation in the making and if treated early enough there is chance you can relive the pain and need not surgical intervention. Traction is something usually done at physical therapy where they bascially stretch your spine a little to decompress your vertebrae and relieve the pressure your bulged disc is placing on your spine. There is a treatment called spinal decompression (some machines used are the DX-9000 and the VAX I believe) which you are strapped in on a table where the machine stretches and releases your spine in short segments. This is the new age version of traction. With traction the therapist would wrap a strap around your body and theirs and pull away creating the tension to stretch your spine and relieve the pressure your vertebraes place on your discs.

The whole idea behind traction and decompression is if you have a balloon thats filled with air and squish it between you hands you'll notice it decreases in height and expands out the sides. This is essence is a bulged or herniated disc....it has lost some of its height and is expanding out the sides (which could be adding pressure to your nevers or spinal canal). With traction or decompression you are stretching your spine or in the balloons case you are releasing the pressure of your hands on the top and the bottom and the balloon will regain some of its height and suck back in the sides that were pressed outwards....which would releive the pressure on your spinal cord/canal/nerves. Doing this process over and over can potentially save a bulging disc from pressing on the nerves and help it to regain its shape and get off the nerves....if it is done early enough and hasnt degenerated too much (in my humble non-doctor opinion).

I know many people who had DDD and herniated and bulged discs that found out about their issue early on and did spinal decompression and saved themselves from surgery and got rid of their pain. I did the spinal decompression but my discs had been deteriorating for many years and were too badly damaged to get much benefit from the decompression. So I hope you try the traction and if it doesnt work completely (and you are fully fused and your doctor OK's it) that you give the spinal decompression a try. It could save you from having surgery.

I added a treatment to me decompression therapy that I thinked help me get the small results I did and is what I attribute to my good friends success in getting completely healed. I got a nebulizer and took pentosan sulfate 2 times a day while doing the decompression. The idea behind the pentosan sulfate (which is used to treat arthiritis and help joints) is it will help regenerate/rejuvenate/rehydrate the discs that are bulging. This combined with decompression is a great conversative treatment for a bulging disc that isnt too far gone.

Wishing you the best! Let me know if you have any questions about what I mentioned above. I'd be more than happy to explain further about everything and how well it can work. Take care!

[drummerman]

Ron,

Thats somewhat good news about the MRI. Its good that you dont have anything to worry about from the surgery but I see your concern about L3. A bulge is a herniation in the making and if treated early enough there is chance you can relive the pain and need not surgical intervention. Traction is something usually done at physical therapy where they bascially stretch your spine a little to decompress your vertebrae and relieve the pressure your bulged disc is placing on your spine. There is a treatment called spinal decompression (some machines used are the DX-9000 and the VAX I believe) which you are strapped in on a table where the machine stretches and releases your spine in short segments. This is the new age version of traction. With traction the therapist would wrap a strap around your body and theirs and pull away creating the tension to stretch your spine and relieve the pressure your vertebraes place on your discs.

The whole idea behind traction and decompression is if you have a balloon thats filled with air and squish it between you hands you'll notice it decreases in height and expands out the sides. This is essence is a bulged or herniated disc....it has lost some of its height and is expanding out the sides (which could be adding pressure to your nevers or spinal canal). With traction or decompression you are stretching your spine or in the balloons case you are releasing the pressure of your hands on the top and the bottom and the balloon will regain some of its height and suck back in the sides that were pressed outwards....which would releive the pressure on your spinal cord/canal/nerves. Doing this process over and over can potentially save a bulging disc from pressing on the nerves and help it to regain its shape and get off the nerves....if it is done early enough and hasnt degenerated too much (in my humble non-doctor opinion).

I know many people who had DDD and herniated and bulged discs that found out about their issue early on and did spinal decompression and saved themselves from surgery and got rid of their pain. I did the spinal decompression but my discs had been deteriorating for many years and were too badly damaged to get much benefit from the decompression. So I hope you try the traction and if it doesnt work completely (and you are fully fused and your doctor OK's it) that you give the spinal decompression a try. It could save you from having surgery.

I added a treatment to me decompression therapy that I thinked help me get the small results I did and is what I attribute to my good friends success in getting completely healed. I got a nebulizer and took pentosan sulfate 2 times a day while doing the decompression. The idea behind the pentosan sulfate (which is used to treat arthiritis and help joints) is it will help regenerate/rejuvenate/rehydrate the discs that are bulging. This combined with decompression is a great conversative treatment for a bulging disc that isnt too far gone.

Wishing you the best! Let me know if you have any questions about what I mentioned above. I'd be more than happy to explain further about everything and how well it can work. Take care!

Thank you so much, Greg

I worked on my hands 4 hours today. Rough going after all this time. Pain wasn't to bad after I finished. I'm kinda thinking now that maybe when I slipped that might have caused L-3 to slip out of position. I haven't looked at the previous MRIs, so I don't know if there was a problem with that disc. I'll tell it really bums me out after the first five months after surgery in January and for this to happen. I was exercising on a stationary bike, stretching and working on the pad. Nothing! Then this...man!
Anyway, thanks for all the info, Greg. I guess the doctor feels my fusion is complete in order to give a prescription for "traction, huh? Do these physical therpy know how much do stretch my spine. I think the machines are expensive, arent they? These operations, doc visits, mri have cost allot of money.

How does one get that pantosan sulfate and nebulizer, greg. Sounds interesting.

Anyway - hold on to your hat - listen watch all of these HERE WAS MY MY HERO- THE MASTER OF MASTERS -
The greatest drummer that ever lived. He died in 87. enjoy

Drummerworld: Buddy Rich

[Greg]

Drummerworld: Buddy Rich

???? Did you study/play with this as well???

[KBear]

As far as the therapists knowing what they are doing and how much is too much, generally they do. However, if it hurts you and you aren't comfortable with doing it, don't. They can push too far and end up putting you in more pain, so listen to your body. We all heal at different rates and some of us take longer and can not take as much activity as others.

[drummerman]

???? Did you study/play with this as well???

No Greg, he was just a LEGEND OF LEGENDS. Roy, Joe, Louis Bellson - all the greatest jazz drummers idolized him. I was able to talk with him a few times in the 70s and 80s. I had listened to his records for 20 years when I mentioned I was playing a gig with a great jazz singer and he was in town and wanted to listen to her. There he was sitting at a table 20 feet in front of me and ... he is the one who played on my set the last tune of the night.

[Greg]

Thank you so much, Greg

I worked on my hands 4 hours today. Rough going after all this time. Pain wasn't to bad after I finished. I'm kinda thinking now that maybe when I slipped that might have caused L-3 to slip out of position. I haven't looked at the previous MRIs, so I don't know if there was a problem with that disc. I'll tell it really bums me out after the first five months after surgery in January and for this to happen. I was exercising on a stationary bike, stretching and working on the pad. Nothing! Then this...man!
Anyway, thanks for all the info, Greg. I guess the doctor feels my fusion is complete in order to give a prescription for "traction, huh? Do these physical therpy know how much do stretch my spine. I think the machines are expensive, arent they? These operations, doc visits, mri have cost allot of money.

How does one get that pantosan sulfate and nebulizer, greg. Sounds interesting.

Anyway - hold on to your hat - listen watch all of these HERE WAS MY MY HERO- THE MASTER OF MASTERS -
The greatest drummer that ever lived. He died in 87. enjoy

Drummerworld: Buddy Rich

Ron,

I guess I was a little confused earlier when I posted my reply. I refreshed this page, scrolled down to the bottom (to see if there was a new reply) and all I saw was the (2nd) reply from you that quoted my text and had the link to Buddy Rich. I didn't notice the reply right before then with what you typed. So....disregard my last reply asking if you played with Buddy Rich; after reading your post I now understand. In order for the doctor to prescribe you traction and physical therapy he DEFINITELY feel comfortable that your vertebrae’s have fused and you are OK for traction. Basically they are stretching your spine so if you haven’t fused than it would be very counter-productive to do traction so I think it’s pretty safe to say you’re fused!

The physical therapist has a general idea of how hard to pull to stretch you but YOU are the ultimate gage. YOU are how they know if they’ve gone too far. So just make sure you tell them if you hurt or feel uncomfortable. More than likely you are not going to hurt or feel bad but do yourself the favor and communicate with the physical therapist.

I know what you mean about spine issues being expensive…..I THINK WE ALL KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE BACK PAIN CAN BE!!! So hopefully you can get the relief from traction because the decompression machines are expensive. You’ll usually find them at a place like a chiropractor’s office or something. They are becoming increasingly more popular so that benefits you greatly as there is now competition for your business ($$$) which helps keep the cost down. If you do go this route make sure you do your research and call as many places as possible to find the best price. Pretty much you’ll get the same result no matter where you go because the machines are mostly all the same….well at least they all do the same thing. You’ll find some places try to pressure you into a plan with “X” number of visits and want all the money up front. Just remember, “It’s all negotiable!” My mother found a place to go to where she only pays $25 per session when she goes. I made the mistake (because I was in SOOO much pain with no dr, no meds, insurance denying surgery with no hope for a future without my pain) and went with the first place I was recommended to and they wanted around $6,000 for a treatment plan that included 24 total session. I talked them down to $3,200 and did it in 2 parts so I got a deal for the place I was at but I know I could have gotten a better deal if I had shopped around….and of course the insurance wouldn’t pay for any of it so I had it financed by “CareCredit” which is like a medical credit card that is really easy to get and usually has deals like 18-24 months 0% financing. I got 12 months no interest (as long as the balance is paid in 12 months). I am relying on my tax return to pay the balance because all I can afford is $100 a month with all the other bills I have not to mention the surgery bills I’m about to get.

I was turned onto the pentosan sulfate by a friend of mine who did the decompression with the pentosan sulfate through the nebulizer and healed his herniated disc pain which he had issues with for at least the last 20 years. His doctor (not the one doing the decompression) had told him about the possibilities of the benefits from the pentosan sulfate and prescribed it to him. I think he bought it online through some web-pharmacy because I don’t think the insurance would pay for it…..that’s why he went online to shop around for the best price. But who knows, maybe your insurance will pay for it. If they wont try and have your doctor call them and state that its “medically necessary” and maybe it’ll work for you. I don’t know, he bought the stuff for me so I didn’t have to try. I fully believe in the pentosan regimen and if you do some research on it you will see why…..it just makes sense.

Something else that you might benefit from, particularly your bulging L3 disc, is getting an “inversion table” that you lay on and can hang upside down or close to it. This does the same thing as traction and decompression by hanging upside down (or close to it….at least 60 degrees) and uses your own body weight to relieve the pressure on your discs that the weight of your body puts on it while you stand or sit. I’m a firm believer in this stuff and when done early on enough, you can save yourself from surgery, stop the degeneration (and sometimes reverse) and damage to your discs. I use to use the inversion table everyday and would hang upside down for 10 minutes. I had to stop once I had the surgery because I need to wait for my bones to fuse before I can stretch myself out but rest assured as soon as I am cleared by the doctor I will be back on the inversion table giving my back the stretch it needs to help prevent any future bulging or degeneration of my discs. I know this is a mouthful to digest and its tough to sit here and type it all so if you’d like to talk about this (or anything for that matter) just send me a PM and I’d be more than happy to go into more detail and explain further. I really think you can benefit from this and hope you can achieve the results you want. Backs starting to hurt so I gotta go…..take care Ron and good luck with getting back into the groove

[drummerman]

Ron,

I guess I was a little confused earlier when I posted my reply. I refreshed this page, scrolled down to the bottom (to see if there was a new reply) and all I saw was the (2nd) reply from you that quoted my text and had the link to Buddy Rich. I didn't notice the reply right before then with what you typed. So....disregard my last reply asking if you played with Buddy Rich; after reading your post I now understand. In order for the doctor to prescribe you traction and physical therapy he DEFINITELY feel comfortable that your vertebrae’s have fused and you are OK for traction. Basically they are stretching your spine so if you haven’t fused than it would be very counter-productive to do traction so I think it’s pretty safe to say you’re fused!

The physical therapist has a general idea of how hard to pull to stretch you but YOU are the ultimate gage. YOU are how they know if they’ve gone too far. So just make sure you tell them if you hurt or feel uncomfortable. More than likely you are not going to hurt or feel bad but do yourself the favor and communicate with the physical therapist.

I know what you mean about spine issues being expensive…..I THINK WE ALL KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE BACK PAIN CAN BE!!! So hopefully you can get the relief from traction because the decompression machines are expensive. You’ll usually find them at a place like a chiropractor’s office or something. They are becoming increasingly more popular so that benefits you greatly as there is now competition for your business ($$$) which helps keep the cost down. If you do go this route make sure you do your research and call as many places as possible to find the best price. Pretty much you’ll get the same result no matter where you go because the machines are mostly all the same….well at least they all do the same thing. You’ll find some places try to pressure you into a plan with “X” number of visits and want all the money up front. Just remember, “It’s all negotiable!” My mother found a place to go to where she only pays $25 per session when she goes. I made the mistake (because I was in SOOO much pain with no dr, no meds, insurance denying surgery with no hope for a future without my pain) and went with the first place I was recommended to and they wanted around $6,000 for a treatment plan that included 24 total session. I talked them down to $3,200 and did it in 2 parts so I got a deal for the place I was at but I know I could have gotten a better deal if I had shopped around….and of course the insurance wouldn’t pay for any of it so I had it financed by “CareCredit” which is like a medical credit card that is really easy to get and usually has deals like 18-24 months 0% financing. I got 12 months no interest (as long as the balance is paid in 12 months). I am relying on my tax return to pay the balance because all I can afford is $100 a month with all the other bills I have not to mention the surgery bills I’m about to get.

I was turned onto the pentosan sulfate by a friend of mine who did the decompression with the pentosan sulfate through the nebulizer and healed his herniated disc pain which he had issues with for at least the last 20 years. His doctor (not the one doing the decompression) had told him about the possibilities of the benefits from the pentosan sulfate and prescribed it to him. I think he bought it online through some web-pharmacy because I don’t think the insurance would pay for it…..that’s why he went online to shop around for the best price. But who knows, maybe your insurance will pay for it. If they wont try and have your doctor call them and state that its “medically necessary” and maybe it’ll work for you. I don’t know, he bought the stuff for me so I didn’t have to try. I fully believe in the pentosan regimen and if you do some research on it you will see why…..it just makes sense.

Something else that you might benefit from, particularly your bulging L3 disc, is getting an “inversion table” that you lay on and can hang upside down or close to it. This does the same thing as traction and decompression by hanging upside down (or close to it….at least 60 degrees) and uses your own body weight to relieve the pressure on your discs that the weight of your body puts on it while you stand or sit. I’m a firm believer in this stuff and when done early on enough, you can save yourself from surgery, stop the degeneration (and sometimes reverse) and damage to your discs. I use to use the inversion table everyday and would hang upside down for 10 minutes. I had to stop once I had the surgery because I need to wait for my bones to fuse before I can stretch myself out but rest assured as soon as I am cleared by the doctor I will be back on the inversion table giving my back the stretch it needs to help prevent any future bulging or degeneration of my discs. I know this is a mouthful to digest and its tough to sit here and type it all so if you’d like to talk about this (or anything for that matter) just send me a PM and I’d be more than happy to go into more detail and explain further. I really think you can benefit from this and hope you can achieve the results you want. Backs starting to hurt so I gotta go…..take care Ron and good luck with getting back into the groove

Hi Greg,
Thanks again for all that info. I am sold on the inversion table and pentosan sulfate. I researched about traction tables and it was not very convincing to me. There are so many different numbered Teeter inversion tables?? I do not know which to get. It seems the EP550 Sport is good... you think?? I think it is better than spending all that money to physical therapists for a set period of time when one can have this for life, right Greg?
What kind do you have or recommend? Thanks, Greg!

Ron

[Greg]

Hi Greg,
Thanks again for all that info. I am sold on the inversion table and pentosan sulfate. I researched about traction tables and it was not very convincing to me. There are so many different numbered Teeter inversion tables?? I do not know which to get. It seems the EP550 Sport is good... you think?? I think it is better than spending all that money to physical therapists for a set period of time when one can have this for life, right Greg?
What kind do you have or recommend? Thanks, Greg!

Ron

Ron,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner buddy! Somehow I must have missed this post when it came through the email on the phone (it just happens sometimes) but I'm glad you have taken an interest in the inversion table which is hands down a great thing whether you got bad discs or not.....preventative maintenance is a great thing. And the pentosan sulfate is a great drug that I dont feel has been tapped to its fullest potential and I hope I can start a new trend with the inversion table pentosan sulfate regimen for self help back patients.

I just "shopzilla'd" the inversion tables and cant believe how many are out there now I got mine around a year and a half ago and there was like a fraction of whats on the market now. I have the exact table you mentioned, the Teeter Hang Ups EP 550 Sport (mine isnt the sport but the sport just means you get more add-on's, still same table)and I am absolutely satisfied which functionality, ease of use, value for price, quality, I think its the best but my opinion is 100% biased as I have only tried 1 other table So my completely biased recommendation (but can completely vouch for it since I have one) is the Teeter Hang Ups EP 550 Sport. Its pretty decent comfortable-wise and nice to have the holes in case you dont have the AC in this 100 degree heat I'm loving in NC right now. Its also fairly quick, easy and secure when adjusting the length of the foot bar. Probably the most important part (in my opinion) of the inversion table to be able to comfortably hang is the system used to secure your feet in place. Because thats where (almost....in case your not completely upside down) all the weight of your body is pulling against. So if you get this inversion table it might not be a bad idea to go with the Sport package to get those gravity boots which will make your "bat-time" more enjoyable.

I know there are cheaper inversion tables out there but seeing how you are helplessly hanging upside down strapped into the device I wanted to go for something better than the cheapest one out there that I felt comfortable enough with it's construction. I'm still counting down the time which I believe I have probably 3 months left until I should be fused (well I hope I get to keep on the fast track but theres no rushing it) and be able to use the inversion table again. I sure do miss it because it does such a good job at stretching your spine, relieving the pressure off your discs from standing all day at a hard days work or if you have bad disc that you are trying to salvage and rejuvenate. I think you'll be happy. I want to explain more about using the machine but I just got a wicked craving for some pancakes and need to get cooking. Send me a PM so I dont forget and I'll give you some tips and information about using it and precautions you should take. Take care bud!